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4th December 2009, 11:04 PM
|  | Fundamentalist Christian and Calvinist
   
 | | Join Date: 21st October 2009
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Reps: 1,003,564,572,942,237,952 (power: 1,003,564,572,942,246) | | Originally Posted by Kilrathi827  The basis for the belief is that the TR is based not simply off of two or three manuscripts that were gathering dust in the back room of an Alexandrian monastery for over 1000 years as the Codex Sinaticus and the Codex Vaticanus were.
The TR is in agreement with well over 90% of the early Greek manuscripts that we have. It is further to note that the TR agrees with all of the lectionary manuscripts that we have from the first 5 centuries of the church's existence which indicates that these were the translations that were being ACTIVELY USED by the church. The vast majority of the disagreements between the core Textus Receptus documents are easily identifiable as copyist errors (i.e. missed capitalizaiton of a word, running together of words, slight changing of one word into another, etc.). The manuscripts that agree with the TR readings are drawn from 3 continents (Asia, Europe, and Africa), indicating a widespread use of this version. Further, the datings of the TR manuscripts are spread over a period of close to 1500 years.
There are also several Latin and Aremenian translations from the period of 400-600 (the period the Codex Vaticanus is believed to have been written) which are clearly translated from a Greek text that held readings in agreement with the TR.
Ultimately though, for me the biggest test of the validity of the TR is that it, or Greek texts that agree with it, were in common use throughout the history of Christendom. In Psalm 12:6-7, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, David said "The Words of the Lord are pure words, as silver tried in the furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." To me that reads that if the Word of the Lord is true, it will be preserved from error, and available to ALL generations. Not lost for 1000 years. Not gathering dust in a backroom. Open, available, and in use by the people of God.
That is why for me, in a nutshell, I consider the TR to be the best of the Greek texts we have available to us now, and by extension the KJV to be the most perfectly preserved translation in the English language. I am not a King James Version Only person, but I do appreciate the beauty and poetry of the written language. As a former Roman Catholic, I started with The Douay-Rheims Bible. Later, after 10 years as an agnostic, I received the gift of salvation by the grace of God at a Charismatic Church and started reading The King James Version. If it wasn't for Dr. Dake's running commentary I do not believe I would have gotten as much out of it as I did. Nowadays as a Fundamentalist Christian, I rely on e-Sword for the many versions it provides both free and for purchase, and primarily the NIV, NASB, HCSB and ESV in written form. So my question is, do people from foreign countries have to learn English to be able to read God's Word?  |
6th December 2009, 08:11 PM
| | Junior Member
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| | Join Date: 22nd October 2009 Location: Mexico
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Reps: 34,385,205,003,795,324 (power: 34,385,205,003,800) | | | "The Law" is written in Hebrew, not English. Matthew 5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
A jot is the Hebrew letter "h," which looks like an apostrophe. When added to the front of a word, it means "the." A tittle is a short line that changes one letter to another. Neither one is part of the English alphabet. |
9th December 2009, 06:57 PM
|  | AKA: Tom - Saved By Grace
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| | Join Date: 21st March 2003 Location: Oklahoma, USA
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,800) | | 
Originally Posted by Faith.Man I am not a King James Version Only person, but I do appreciate the beauty and poetry of the written language. As a former Roman Catholic, I started with The Douay-Rheims Bible. Later, after 10 years as an agnostic, I received the gift of salvation by the grace of God at a Charismatic Church and started reading The King James Version. If it wasn't for Dr. Dake's running commentary I do not believe I would have gotten as much out of it as I did. Nowadays as a Fundamentalist Christian, I rely on e-Sword for the many versions it provides both free and for purchase, and primarily the NIV, NASB, HCSB and ESV in written form. So my question is, do people from foreign countries have to learn English to be able to read God's Word?
Hello fellow e-Sword user. I also use e-Sword with multiple translations of the Holy Bible, including Hebrew and Greek. As far as I know, THE HOLY BIBLE is translated into every known language in the world. The KJV is just a translation, and many translations are just as good or better than the KJV in terms of accuracy in word for word Translation from the Hebrew and Greek. The KJV is just one that I use frequently, but I also use the NASB, ESV, ASV, RSV, NIV, and other excellent translations. The "KJV Onlyists" are simply misguided and wrong. They also create a lot of hate and division among Brothers and Sisters in Christ.
Good News! -- The Holy Bible is the WORD OF GOD! -- God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit - The Creator Of All Things! -- "GOD'S GRACE" and "OUR WORKS" -- Thanksgiving Proclamations ( 1623 to 1863 ) -- Thanksgiving Proclamations ( 1961 to 2001 ) -- JESUS CHRIST - VERY GOD - LORD - SAVIOUR - MESSIAH - KING
__________________ Love In Christ,
Tom
Philippians 2:5-11 KJV Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
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9th December 2009, 11:28 PM
| | Fundamentalist Christian and Calvinist
| | Join Date: 21st October 2009
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Reps: 1,003,564,572,942,237,952 (power: 1,003,564,572,942,246) | | Originally Posted by 357magnum Hello fellow e-Sword user. I also use e-Sword with multiple translations of the Holy Bible, including Hebrew and Greek. As far as I know, THE HOLY BIBLE is translated into every known language in the world. The KJV is just a translation, and many translations are just as good or better than the KJV in terms of accuracy in word for word Translation from the Hebrew and Greek. The KJV is just one that I use frequently, but I also use the NASB, ESV, ASV, RSV, NIV, and other excellent translations. The "KJV Onlyists" are simply misguided and wrong. They also create a lot of hate and division among Brothers and Sisters in Christ. Good News! -- The Holy Bible is the WORD OF GOD! -- God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit - The Creator Of All Things! -- "GOD'S GRACE" and "OUR WORKS" -- Thanksgiving Proclamations ( 1623 to 1863 ) -- Thanksgiving Proclamations ( 1961 to 2001 ) -- JESUS CHRIST - VERY GOD - LORD - SAVIOUR - MESSIAH - KING
Isn't e-Sword awesome! It's such a powerful tool. With respect to KJV-Onlyists, awhile back I saw a debate between two Evangelicals supporting the KJV-Only position and two supporting modern translations on the John Ankerberg Show. If I remember correctly, the two KJV-Only people couldn't even agree amongst themselves which was the proper King James Version to use. This seems like legalism to me. |
10th December 2009, 02:20 PM
| | AKA: Tom - Saved By Grace
64
| | Join Date: 21st March 2003 Location: Oklahoma, USA
Posts: 12,458
Blessings: 9,037,948 My Mood
Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,800) | |
Originally Posted by Faith.Man Isn't e-Sword awesome! It's such a powerful tool. With respect to KJV-Onlyists, awhile back I saw a debate between two Evangelicals supporting the KJV-Only position and two supporting modern translations on the John Ankerberg Show. If I remember correctly, the two KJV-Only people couldn't even agree amongst themselves which was the proper King James Version to use. This seems like legalism to me.
Yes, e-Sword is wonderful. I've been using it almost since it first came out. It's amazing how many excellent Bible Study tools are completely free with the only stipulation that you can't sell them or claim them as your own. For those wondering what we're talking about, here's a link:
http://www.e-sword.net/downloads.html
You can have a full-featured Bible Study program completely free. If you want certain newer Bible Translations, dictionaries, commentaries, etc., there is a minimum fee because royalties still have to be paid. However, most of the best Bible Study materials are older and cost nothing.
Back on topic, most people don't realize they are using a 1789 version of the KJV. The original KJV was 1611, and it is lost. There was a time when so many versions of the KJV were out that they formed a committee to standardize it. It's also interesting to note that the 1611 and some later versions of the KJV had the Apocrypha included. The point is that the KJV is not the standard - just a translation. The standard is in Hebrew and Greek.
Good News! -- The Holy Bible is the WORD OF GOD! -- God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit - The Creator Of All Things! -- "GOD'S GRACE" and "OUR WORKS" -- Thanksgiving Proclamations ( 1623 to 1863 ) -- Thanksgiving Proclamations ( 1961 to 2001 ) -- JESUS CHRIST - VERY GOD - LORD - SAVIOUR - MESSIAH - KING
__________________ Love In Christ,
Tom
Philippians 2:5-11 KJV Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
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