Home | Be a Christian | Devotionals | Join Us! | Forums | Rules | F.A.Q.


Go Back   Christian Forums > Theology (Christians Only) > Theology > General Theology > Origins Theology
Register BlogsPrayersJobsArcade Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Origins Theology Forum for the discussion of Creation Science (Young/Old) vs Theistic Evolution. Discussion of Atheistic Evolution should be taken to the Discussion and Debate forums.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 30th March 2008, 08:16 AM
juvenissun's Avatar
Veteran

57 Gender: Male Married Faith: Baptist Member For 2 Years
 
Join Date: 5th April 2007
Posts: 5,243
Blessings: 57,061
Reps: 28,622,531,952,872 (power: 28,622,531,960)
juvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond repute
juvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond repute
An example of Creation Science

How would a Creationist teach science?

Don't laugh too fast. Here is an example:

It's an armed and dangerous fungus with a hair trigger. The fungus known as Haptoglossa uses high-velocity projectiles fired from automatic cannons built into its body. Thankfully, the fungus's impressive weaponry is aimed at other microscopic creatures.

Haptoglossa lives in ponds and wet soil. Its prey is the microscopic rotifer. Rotifers are so tiny that they can as easily swim in pond water or the water between the grains that saturate moist soil. When the rotifer brushes against one of Haptoglossa's cannon cells, the cannon fires a missile of cellular material into the rotifer. It's thought that the cannon's fire power comes from high pressure fluid at the base of the cell. The fired missile punches a hole through the rotifer's protective covering, preparing the way for a second attack wave.

Next, the fungus extends a hypodermic tube into the rotifer. This tube delivers Haptoglossa's single-celled infection unit into the rotifer. This cell begins to multiply inside the rotifer until the entire rotifer is nothing but fungus cells.
Any objection on this way of teaching science? I am not disclosing the source at this time (definitely not from me). The point is: Creationist teaches science in a way not any different from Evolutionist does, but only better.
Reply With Quote
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!

  #2  
Old 30th March 2008, 09:30 AM
gluadys's Avatar
Legend

Gender: Female Faith: Protestant Party: CA-NDP Country: Canada Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 2nd March 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 10,924
Blessings: 31,769
Reps: 2,246,248,868 (power: 2,246,264)
gluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond repute
gluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by juvenissun View Post
How would a Creationist teach science?

Don't laugh too fast. Here is an example:



Any objection on this way of teaching science? I am not disclosing the source at this time (definitely not from me). The point is: Creationist teaches science in a way not any different from Evolutionist does, but only better.
Science is more than describing the Haptoglossa's feeding habits, juvenissun.

How would non-evolutionary creationism help us understand the Haptoglossa? How would it provide a better understanding than evolutionary creationism?
__________________
The high, the low, all of creation God gives to humankind to use. If this privilege is misused, God's Justice permits creation to punish humanity~~ Hildegard of Bingen cited in, Earth Prayers from around the World
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 30th March 2008, 09:47 AM
ClearSky's Avatar
Regular Member

Gender: Female Faith: Christian Member For 1 Years
 
Join Date: 21st December 2007
Posts: 143
Blessings: 34,185
Reps: 3,418 (power: 5)
ClearSky is a glorious beacon of light
ClearSky is a glorious beacon of lightClearSky is a glorious beacon of lightClearSky is a glorious beacon of lightClearSky is a glorious beacon of lightClearSky is a glorious beacon of light
Originally Posted by juvenissun View Post
The point is: Creationist teaches science in a way not any different from Evolutionist does, but only better.
What has this to do with Creationism??
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 30th March 2008, 10:35 AM
Assyrian's Avatar
Contributor

49 Gender: Male Married Faith: Christian Country: Wales Member For 3 Years Fisherman
 
Join Date: 31st March 2006
Location: Wales
Posts: 7,114
Blessings: 76,222
My Mood Mellow
Reps: 118,199,997,897,912 (power: 118,199,997,908)
Assyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond repute
Assyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond reputeAssyrian has a reputation beyond repute
Juve left out the part where it switches from well researched science and tacks on a creationist homily.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 30th March 2008, 11:24 AM
Mallon's Avatar
Senior Veteran

27 Gender: Male Married Faith: Lutheran Country: Canada Member For 3 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 6th March 2006
Posts: 4,597
Blessings: 18,446
Reps: 2,407,416,190,569 (power: 2,407,416,198)
Mallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond repute
Mallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond repute
gluadys is right. Science is more than just rhyming off a bunch of facts. Science is about developing robust, coherent theories to explain and relate those facts. This is where neocreationism fails and evolutionary theory wins.
(To wit, it's a fact that when an object is dropped anywhere in the world, it will fall to the ground. But this isn't science. Science involves developing a testable theory to explain HOW it happens. Your example above is missing this kind of context.)
__________________
We can allow satellites, planets, suns, universe, nay whole systems of universes, to be governed by laws, but the smallest insect, we wish to be created at once by special act.

-- Charles Darwin
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 30th March 2008, 06:38 PM
juvenissun's Avatar
Veteran

57 Gender: Male Married Faith: Baptist Member For 2 Years
 
Join Date: 5th April 2007
Posts: 5,243
Blessings: 57,061
Reps: 28,622,531,952,872 (power: 28,622,531,960)
juvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond repute
juvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by ClearSky View Post
What has this to do with Creationism??
Assyrian is right, the rest of the story is about a message of Creation. See this link. I like this project very much. I am bad in biology. This program not only teaches me the science of biology, but also let me appreciate how difficult it would be to account for these biological features by evolution. I tried several times to raise question, introduced by this program, to some evolution biologists. Never ONCE I got any type of good explanation according to the theory of evolution.

How would a Creationist teach science? I always said, it is no different from what an Evolutionist would do. We teach observations. We teach analyses. We teach hypotheses and theories. However, unlike Evolutionist, we concludes the teaching with an important remark: God has the answer, we do not. Everything is His creation.

That is the correct way of teaching science.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 30th March 2008, 07:38 PM
Mallon's Avatar
Senior Veteran

27 Gender: Male Married Faith: Lutheran Country: Canada Member For 3 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 6th March 2006
Posts: 4,597
Blessings: 18,446
Reps: 2,407,416,190,569 (power: 2,407,416,198)
Mallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond repute
Mallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by juvenissun View Post
How would a Creationist teach science? I always said, it is no different from what an Evolutionist would do. We teach observations. We teach analyses. We teach hypotheses and theories. However, unlike Evolutionist, we concludes the teaching with an important remark: God has the answer, we do not. Everything is His creation.

That is the correct way of teaching science.
So what's the point in studying anything, then, if your answer will always be "God knows"?
Seems kinda like the opposite of using the brain God gave you, dontchathink?
__________________
We can allow satellites, planets, suns, universe, nay whole systems of universes, to be governed by laws, but the smallest insect, we wish to be created at once by special act.

-- Charles Darwin
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 30th March 2008, 09:34 PM
gluadys's Avatar
Legend

Gender: Female Faith: Protestant Party: CA-NDP Country: Canada Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 2nd March 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 10,924
Blessings: 31,769
Reps: 2,246,248,868 (power: 2,246,264)
gluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond repute
gluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by juvenissun View Post
Assyrian is right, the rest of the story is about a message of Creation. See this link. I like this project very much. I am bad in biology. This program not only teaches me the science of biology, but also let me appreciate how difficult it would be to account for these biological features by evolution.
I didn't read the whole site, but here is the homily on Haptoglossa:

No matter how small and seemingly unimportant to us, everything God made reflects His creativity and excellent workmanship. Even microscopic creatures are filled with devices and inventions that move us to marvel at the Creator's care for each life form He has made. As Scripture says, "How excellent are His works in all the Earth!"
Now what I notice is that it adds no new scientific information. It says nothing about evolution, pro or con. Any evolutionary creationist could agree with this.

What does this teach about biology? What does it say about the problems explaining Haptoglossa via evolution?

Nothing at all. It is perfectly consistent with both an evolutionary and a non-evolutionary creationist perspective, because it tells us nothing about biology at all.

I tried several times to raise question, introduced by this program, to some evolution biologists. Never ONCE I got any type of good explanation according to the theory of evolution.
Probably they wanted you to understand the theory of evolution first. It is good to lay a groundwork for understanding. Applying the theory of evolution to something like the Haptoglossa demands a degree of prior knowledge. Are you prepared to take time to learn what you must learn about the basics of evolution before you start trying to apply it to special cases?

How would a Creationist teach science? I always said, it is no different from what an Evolutionist would do. We teach observations. We teach analyses. We teach hypotheses and theories.
No hypotheses or theories in this excerpt. Only observations and praise to the Creator.

However, unlike Evolutionist, we concludes the teaching with an important remark: God has the answer, we do not. Everything is His creation.
Who says that is unlike an evolutionist?

What I see is that an evolutionary creationist understands when we are stepping out of science and into worship. I am not sure non-evolutionary creationists do.

That is the correct way of teaching science.
In a faith-based school, yes. Not in a secular tax-supported school.
__________________
The high, the low, all of creation God gives to humankind to use. If this privilege is misused, God's Justice permits creation to punish humanity~~ Hildegard of Bingen cited in, Earth Prayers from around the World
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 30th March 2008, 09:53 PM
juvenissun's Avatar
Veteran

57 Gender: Male Married Faith: Baptist Member For 2 Years
 
Join Date: 5th April 2007
Posts: 5,243
Blessings: 57,061
Reps: 28,622,531,952,872 (power: 28,622,531,960)
juvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond repute
juvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond reputejuvenissun has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Mallon View Post
So what's the point in studying anything, then, if your answer will always be "God knows"?
Seems kinda like the opposite of using the brain God gave you, dontchathink?
Noticed that in the creation science education, the attribution of all known and unknown to God's creation is comparable to the part of acknowledgement in an article, which is put after the section of conclusion. It is not put in the introduction, nor at anywhere in the contents. So, in terms of scientific method, it is very appropriate to give credit to God after all the learning.

This attitude of teaching and learning is completely missing in the so called evolution science education.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 30th March 2008, 10:09 PM
Mallon's Avatar
Senior Veteran

27 Gender: Male Married Faith: Lutheran Country: Canada Member For 3 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 6th March 2006
Posts: 4,597
Blessings: 18,446
Reps: 2,407,416,190,569 (power: 2,407,416,198)
Mallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond repute
Mallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond reputeMallon has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by juvenissun View Post
Noticed that in the creation science education, the attribution of all known and unknown to God's creation is comparable to the part of acknowledgement in an article, which is put after the section of conclusion. It is not put in the introduction, nor at anywhere in the contents. So, in terms of scientific method, it is very appropriate to give credit to God after all the learning.

This attitude of teaching and learning is completely missing in the so called evolution science education.
The reason why you see no attribution to God in the public school textbooks is because the people that founded your country thought it would be best for the government not to promote the teaching of any one religion over another. The metaphysical implications are saved for where they belong: outside the science classroom, in the likes of Sunday school or church.

And out of curiosity, what "creation science education" textbook did you cite as an example above?
__________________
We can allow satellites, planets, suns, universe, nay whole systems of universes, to be governed by laws, but the smallest insect, we wish to be created at once by special act.

-- Charles Darwin
Reply With Quote
Reply


Return to Origins Theology

Thread Tools
Display Modes



 
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:47 AM.


vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007 - 2008, PixelFX Studios