Actually JesusFreak.....I am going to be posting another study on the Millennium and we can know for sure that Jesus will reign on earth, however, he will not reign here on earth during the Millennium. I think you will enjoy that study......God Bless
Huh? uh...isn't this a study on Jesus' second coming? I believe the millenium ties in with that...just post it here.
Rev 20 says Christ will reign on earth for 1,000 years explicitly. It is very clear. He WILL reign during the millennium, that's what the millennium is - a fulfillment of the OT promises made to Israel. Israel will receive the promised land, and will have a king given to them from the seed of David who will reign on David's throne. The Abrahamic, Palestinian, Davidic and New covenants all have fulfillment in the millenial reign of Christ. Take that away and you have made fulfillment of the covenants impossible.
none at all....pre trib is totally incorrect and a work of Satan to deceive God's children....be edified, I was at one time a pre tribber...post trib is provable...pre trib is purely speculation...
Before you say what is a "work of Satan", you ought to defend yourself. You say Post Trib is provable, yet you haven't explained my previous statement which shows obvious contradictions and inconsistencies which CANNOT be reconciled.
Originally Posted by zeke37
i would leave you with the though....
if Jesus was to come crying rapture....and was walking on the planet doing so...even if he was supernatural, it cannot be the real true Messiah....
Okay...I doubt Jesus will "come crying rapture"...
Originally Posted by zeke37
all flesh is done away with at His coming...a definitive proof....
in His service
c
All flesh is not done away with at His coming? Heaven is not the same as the millenial kingdom... Sorry not a definitive proof. Instead of stating one word sentences, please be more "definitive".
when God brings with Him all the dead souls that believe in Jesus...as their promise is...
all flesh is changed to spiritual celestial bodies as the angels have...at His Coming...
c
Thessalonians 4: 16-17
The answer to the question as to how the dead can be raised when the remains of their bodies are in some cases totally scattered is not a problem for a supernatural God who created the world. Clearly the resurrection will be a physical resurrection in which bodily existence will be restored, as confirmed in 1 Cor. 15:51-53. The resurrected bodies of christians will be like that of christ (1 John 3:2), incorruptible and immortal, and yet they will be bodies of flesh and bone (luke 24:39, 40; John 20:20, 25, 27). They all will be recognizable, as was the resurrected body of christ. Living Christians will be caught up together with the other believers in the clouds to meet the lord in the air.
Huh? uh...isn't this a study on Jesus' second coming? I believe the millenium ties in with that...just post it here.
Rev 20 says Christ will reign on earth for 1,000 years explicitly. It is very clear. He WILL reign during the millennium, that's what the millennium is - a fulfillment of the OT promises made to Israel. Israel will receive the promised land, and will have a king given to them from the seed of David who will reign on David's throne. The Abrahamic, Palestinian, Davidic and New covenants all have fulfillment in the millenial reign of Christ. Take that away and you have made fulfillment of the covenants impossible.
When will the promise of John 14: 1 - 3 be fulfilled?
When will the promise of John 14: 1 - 3 be fulfilled?
Jhn 14:1 "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.
Jhn 14:2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
Jhn 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, {there} you may be also.
This will be fulfilled at the rapture, prior to the 70th week of Daniel, or, the great tribulation. Christ will come and take His bride (the church) that we may be with Him forever.
Jhn 14:1 "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.
Jhn 14:2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
Jhn 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, {there} you may be also.
This will be fulfilled at the rapture, prior to the 70th week of Daniel, or, the great tribulation. Christ will come and take His bride (the church) that we may be with Him forever.
So you left the truth, many propably know this by your opposition to the Word, for example Jesus says the son of perdition is judas iscariot and you say no he is just a type, satan is the son of perdition. Absolutely amazing. Going against Jesus is going against the Truth.
pre trib is totally incorrect and a work of Satan to deceive God's children....be edified, I was at one time a pre tribber...post trib is provable...pre trib is purely speculation...
All the scripture that has been given for a pretribulation catching up to christ and you say it is a work of satan and speculation. I would say that the scriptures are not a work of satan and speculation.
[quote=Jesusfreak5000;44821563]Before you say what is a "work of Satan", you ought to defend yourself. You say Post Trib is provable, yet you haven't explained my previous statement which shows obvious contradictions and inconsistencies which CANNOT be reconciled.
there is no contradiction...perhaps you could be more specific? which post?
Okay...I doubt Jesus will "come crying rapture"...
the real Jesus will not of course, as there is no pre trib rapture...but the fake Jesus will, claiming to be Messiah returned...that is why we have all the warnings that tell us who must come first, and Who comes second...and not to follow anyone claiming to be Him....
your scenario has the real Jesus coming first and the fake Jesus Coming second...when the bible teaches opposite.
All flesh is not done away with at His coming?
Yes it is...1Cor15 states that explicidly...if you believe He is Coming here, then all flesh cannot exist wqhen He is here in His Glorified Body......
and that is why the change happens where we shall not all die....but be changed...
the elect are gathered together with the returning Dead in Christ...and together they are the firstfruits...they reign and rule over the others who did not overcome in Jacobn's trouble...
the firstfruits have INCORRUPTIBLE IMMORTAL spiritual/celestial bodies....everlasting bodies...they are already Judged....good to God..the second death (that of the soul) does not apply to them...they have the glorified body...
but the others, are likewise changed into the INCORRUPTIBLE body but there is no promise of IMMROTALITY to them...they will last the Millennium, and not die or get sick, but must face Satan again when he is released for a short season...they can overcome then, or it's into the Lake of Fire...the second death, reserved for the fallen angels and the bad children who follow Satan's way and reject God's way.
Heaven is not the same as the millenial kingdom...
I never said it was...nor implied it
Sorry not a definitive proof.
Sure it is...if you understand that Jesus cannot Come back here while there is flesh...1Cor15.
Instead of stating one word sentences, please be more "definitive".
I have been, you may not like the answers, but...
and understanding Hebraisms and symbolic descriptions goes a long way...
The answer to the question as to how the dead can be raised when the remains of their bodies are in some cases totally scattered is not a problem for a supernatural God who created the world. Clearly the resurrection will be a physical resurrection in which bodily existence will be restored, as confirmed in 1 Cor. 15:51-53. The resurrected bodies of christians will be like that of christ (1 John 3:2), incorruptible and immortal, and yet they will be bodies of flesh and bone (luke 24:39, 40; John 20:20, 25, 27). They all will be recognizable, as was the resurrected body of christ.
Mary did not recognise Him
neither they on the road to Damascus...
but that is not the point...the point is that when Messiah comes back, He is Coming back in His Glorified body that has been to the Father...that was a different body then the one He was killed in, or the one He resurrected in...it is a different body then the one that was transfigured and spoke to Elijah and Moses..
the heavenly body is physical, just not flesh...it is an Incorruptible body, and those in Jesus are with Him now, awaiting their return to earth....as 1Thes4:13f states...
it is all of our Great Promise that He shall bring with Him those dead...so we are not to be ignorant about where the dead are...they are with Him...
Christ spent time explaining to the Pharisees the same thing, with the teaching of the woman widowed multiple times...and who's wife she would be in the resurrection...
Christ taught them, that they erred greatly...Abraham, Issac and Jacob are alive right now...
Christ has risen, so our Belief is to be that all who have died in Him are likewise risen...else all is in vain...(1Cor15)
the souls of the dead are alive right now in heaven..they have bodies and are alive...their flesh is long gone and will never come back...it is a figure of speech...to defeat death, burst out of the graves...but they have bodies...spiritual/celestial/heavenly bodies...very physical as the angel's bodies are physical.
but no flesh can even exist when Messiah Comes as 1Cor15..
Living Christians will be caught up together with the other believers in the clouds to meet the lord in the air.
true, but figurative...
caught up = seized...(no up in the manuscripts)
together = at the same time...dead in Christ return with Him...and together with them, the ones on earth are gathered...
meet the Lord in the breath of life body, the spiritual body, not the flesh body....(1Cor15's mystery change)
and they are Coming here..as Rev14 teaches...
and then comes the wrath of God, as the vials are poured out...
1John3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
when He Comes, we must be like Him...He is not flesh today, because no flesh can be in the kingdom of God...so therefore, when He comes, WE shall be changed to be like Him...no flesh...1Cor15. Logical.
as for Luke24:39-40, that was to prove to the world that He had defeated death, but Christ had not been tot he Father yet...that Appearance is not going to be the same Appearance as when He Comes, because there will be no flesh, as explained earlier.
John20:20...go back up to verse 13...understand that Mary did not recognise Him...but it was Him...as the other disciples likewise did not recognise Him....until it was time for them to see the Light...
and in verse 17 we learn that He had not yet been to the Father...so His flesh was intact...
after He goes to the Father, the flesh is null and void...
-- New American Standard
Hebrews 9:28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
Jesus came the first time when He went to the Cross.
-- New American Standard
Acts 3:19 "Repent therefore and return, that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;
-- New American Standard
Acts 3:20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you,
He comes into an individuals life - or is sent - the Second time when an individual repents from unbelief.
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