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12th March 2008, 07:19 AM
|  | You know what?
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Reps: 647,544,106,708,370,944 (power: 647,544,106,708,382) | | | Problem of evil fallacy made by athiests
Atheist: Since evil exists, God cannot exist! To first believe that there is a problem with evil (or to even say it exists), one must believe evil is part of an objective law of morality. If not, there is no objective way to distinguish between what is truly good, evil, wrong, or right. This is called moral absolutism, a belief that there are absolute standards against which moral questions can be judged, and that certain actions are right or wrong, devoid of the context of the act. A transcendental morality law is best explained by theism, and fails to be explained by natural circumstances. In making a case against God and at the same time saying there is absolute evil or good is practically contradictory. Beliefs in such universal laws are in fact a proof for Gods existence. Those who oppose moral absolutism are moral relativists and believe that moral truths are relative to social, cultural, historical or personal references, and to situational ethics, which holds that the morality of an act depends on the context of the act. The problem here is that if right and wrong are purely relative, there ceases to be objective moral values. There can no longer be a problem with evil because there is no longer a universal basis to suggest suffering and other supposed evils are actually bad in an absolute sense. At this point one cannot continue with this argument without assuming moral absolutism is true. Yet, doing so will only help prove Gods own existence.
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The Jig is up!
They exchange the glory of being created in the image of God for being the descendants of cavemen, monkeys, reptiles, and worms.
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12th March 2008, 01:33 PM
|  | A Million Points of Light
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Reps: 19,908,769,231,416,528 (power: 19,908,769,231,499) | | Well, what if morality is both absloute and relative at the same time? 
__________________ "The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with weary feet,
Until it joins some larger way,
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say."
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12th March 2008, 04:27 PM
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Reps: 313,988,312,753,055,232 (power: 313,988,312,753,066) | | Originally Posted by *Starlight*  Well, what if morality is both absloute and relative at the same time?
Could you give an example? |
12th March 2008, 04:52 PM
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Reps: 18,572,085,511,231,920 (power: 18,572,085,511,243) | | Originally Posted by Jig Atheist: Since evil exists, God cannot exist! To first believe that there is a problem with evil (or to even say it exists), one must believe evil is part of an objective law of morality. If not, there is no objective way to distinguish between what is truly good, evil, wrong, or right. This is called moral absolutism, a belief that there are absolute standards against which moral questions can be judged, and that certain actions are right or wrong, devoid of the context of the act. A transcendental morality law is best explained by theism, and fails to be explained by natural circumstances. In making a case against God and at the same time saying there is absolute evil or good is practically contradictory. Beliefs in such universal laws are in fact a proof for Gods existence. Those who oppose moral absolutism are moral relativists and believe that moral truths are relative to social, cultural, historical or personal references, and to situational ethics, which holds that the morality of an act depends on the context of the act. The problem here is that if right and wrong are purely relative, there ceases to be objective moral values. There can no longer be a problem with evil because there is no longer a universal basis to suggest suffering and other supposed evils are actually bad in an absolute sense. At this point one cannot continue with this argument without assuming moral absolutism is true. Yet, doing so will only help prove Gods own existence.
Okay, let's take a concrete example:
A guy abducts a 13 year old girl, keeps her in his basement, rapes her repeatedly, mutilates her, and finally kills her.
Is it evil?
Why did God cause/let this happen?
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12th March 2008, 05:01 PM
| | A Million Points of Light
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Reps: 19,908,769,231,416,528 (power: 19,908,769,231,499) | | Originally Posted by bling Could you give an example?
I wrote about it in another thread some time ago... the post is here http://christianforums.com/showpost....3&postcount=11 That's my personal opinion about the idea of morality.
__________________ "The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with weary feet,
Until it joins some larger way,
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say."
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12th March 2008, 05:13 PM
|  | Senior Veteran
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Reps: 96,327,666 (power: 96,339) | | Originally Posted by *Starlight*  Well, what if morality is both absloute and relative at the same time? Originally Posted by bling Could you give an example?
10 Commandments
Exodus 20:2-17
1. Ye shall have no other gods before me
2. Ye shall make no graven images (idols to worship)
3. Ye shall not use the name of the Lord in vain
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy
5. Honor your father and mother
6. Ye shall not murder
7. Ye shall not commit adultery
8. Ye shall not steal
9. Ye shall not bear false witness
10. Ye shall not covet what is your neighbor's
One example from a commandment, let's say, #8 Ye shall not steal
It is universally accepted that to have someone steal from us is wrong...on the face of it, or, generally. However, in a situational instance, if that person stole from me because his family was in a life-threatening situation, it was not wrong.
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12th March 2008, 08:42 PM
|  | Regular Member
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Reps: 168,839,878,045,486,400 (power: 168,839,878,045,493) | | | Starlights stand on moral physics makes pretty good sense. Evil is not evil because the Bible says so. Evil is evil because God says so, and whether or not you believe in God it's still evil because that's the general rule of the universe.
It's like Gravity doesn't cease to be gravity because a rocket goes into orbit. |
13th March 2008, 03:45 PM
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Reps: 313,988,312,753,055,232 (power: 313,988,312,753,066) | | Originally Posted by Stinker Originally Posted by *Starlight* Well, what if morality is both absloute and relative at the same time?
10 Commandments
Exodus 20:2-17
1. Ye shall have no other gods before me
2. Ye shall make no graven images (idols to worship)
3. Ye shall not use the name of the Lord in vain
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy
5. Honor your father and mother
6. Ye shall not murder
7. Ye shall not commit adultery
8. Ye shall not steal
9. Ye shall not bear false witness
10. Ye shall not covet what is your neighbor's
One example from a commandment, let's say, #8 Ye shall not steal
It is universally accepted that to have someone steal from us is wrong...on the face of it, or, generally. However, in a situational instance, if that person stole from me because his family was in a life-threatening situation, it was not wrong. OK, the moral law is Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and energy and to Love other. The Law for the earthly Jewish nation at the time was the ten and a whole lot more. | |
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