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11th March 2008, 06:20 PM
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Reps: 2,722,694,827,398,467 (power: 2,722,694,827,403) | | Originally Posted by LewisWildermuth  I would say that ID is mostly a combination of theological and scientific ignorance. Sure with the wedge document there is some conspiratorial aspects to it, but for most of the followers, it is just ignorance.
What about you then? Care to defend the idea in a formal debate? |
11th March 2008, 06:23 PM
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Reps: 1,795,728 (power: 1,807) | | Originally Posted by LordTimothytheWise What about you then? Care to defend the idea in a formal debate?
Defend the idea that, for the most part people are ignorant and gullible on one subject or another?
Sure...
Reality TV.
I win.
That was not so hard. |
11th March 2008, 06:24 PM
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Reps: 2,722,694,827,398,467 (power: 2,722,694,827,403) | | Originally Posted by LewisWildermuth Defend the idea that, for the most part people are ignorant and gullible on one subject or another?
Sure...
Reality TV.
I win.
That was not so hard.
I mean your position on ID. |
11th March 2008, 07:17 PM
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Reps: 84,929,301,057,186,064 (power: 84,929,301,057,204) | | Originally Posted by LordTimothytheWise Its a specific thesis. I do not think it is vague at all. That Intelligent Design is disguised creationism attempting to get into public schools.
That is not specific at all given the fact that many think ID should not be in schools.
However, in every case where people have actively tried to push ID into the high school science classroom it has been because of religious reasons (aka disguised creationism). I would support this argument, if you wish.
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“Because they know not the forces of nature, and in order that they may have comrades in their ignorance, they suffer not that others should search out anything, and would have us believe like rustics and ask no reason...But we ask in all things a reason must be sought.” --William of Conches (c. 1090 – after 1154) |
13th March 2008, 10:41 AM
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Reps: 2,722,694,827,398,467 (power: 2,722,694,827,403) | | Originally Posted by Loudmouth That is not specific at all given the fact that many think ID should not be in schools.
However, in every case where people have actively tried to push ID into the high school science classroom it has been because of religious reasons (aka disguised creationism). I would support this argument, if you wish.
But I would agree with you on that.
Grrr. lol.
Ok how about that the current ID movement was started for religious (as opposed to philosophical/scientific) reasons.
Would you support that? |
13th March 2008, 02:05 PM
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Reps: 84,929,301,057,186,064 (power: 84,929,301,057,204) | | Originally Posted by LordTimothytheWise But I would agree with you on that.
Grrr. lol.
Ok how about that the current ID movement was started for religious (as opposed to philosophical/scientific) reasons.
Would you support that?
If you define the ID movement as the one started by Phillip Johnson then yes, I would support that. Beware of the Wedge Document.
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“Because they know not the forces of nature, and in order that they may have comrades in their ignorance, they suffer not that others should search out anything, and would have us believe like rustics and ask no reason...But we ask in all things a reason must be sought.” --William of Conches (c. 1090 – after 1154) |
13th March 2008, 02:16 PM
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Reps: 2,722,694,827,398,467 (power: 2,722,694,827,403) | | | That is good advice... but what if I don't define it that way? |
13th March 2008, 06:18 PM
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Reps: 84,929,301,057,186,064 (power: 84,929,301,057,204) | | Originally Posted by LordTimothytheWise That is good advice... but what if I don't define it that way?
Then it will have to be on an individual basis for each ID proponent.
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“Because they know not the forces of nature, and in order that they may have comrades in their ignorance, they suffer not that others should search out anything, and would have us believe like rustics and ask no reason...But we ask in all things a reason must be sought.” --William of Conches (c. 1090 – after 1154) |
13th March 2008, 06:28 PM
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Reps: 2,722,694,827,398,467 (power: 2,722,694,827,403) | | Originally Posted by Loudmouth Then it will have to be on an individual basis for each ID proponent.
Why?
Everyone on the C/E forum generalizes the individual's screw ups or motivations on the movement at large all the time? |
13th March 2008, 09:28 PM
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Reps: 84,929,301,057,186,064 (power: 84,929,301,057,204) | | Originally Posted by LordTimothytheWise Why?
Everyone on the C/E forum generalizes the individual's screw ups or motivations on the movement at large all the time?
In general, the ID movement is a religious and political movement, not a scientific one. As with every generalization there are exceptions. If you want to talk about THE ID Movement that was started by Phillip Johnson and it is an overtly religious movement.
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“Because they know not the forces of nature, and in order that they may have comrades in their ignorance, they suffer not that others should search out anything, and would have us believe like rustics and ask no reason...But we ask in all things a reason must be sought.” --William of Conches (c. 1090 – after 1154) | | |
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