You are assuming that you can define the universe as a predetermined model. But if the universe could be defined thus, how could there be free will? As such, the only thing meaningful is to make the most meaningful place in the universe (the only place we can live) the center.
I do not follow your logic; the Universe and all that is in it was created by God. Free will is something that he built into all of creation. That is micro free will or personal free will, if however a person or people try to change His macro plan regarding His people, then He will foil that plan. He might use nature or man to do this.
Early Christians decided that Jerusalem was the centre of the World and fought over it. Then Rome became the centre of the world to Christians, however there is no centre, it is totally irrelevant to God how and where we assign the centre of anything. He is the centre of all and whatever we decide must be the centre of anything will change in time.
God created the earth, and said, "Let there be light." Light was apart from the earth, and since the earth was in rotation the evening and the morning were the first day- the first rotation of the earth. The entity known as "light" would have functioned much the same way the sun did. However, since God created green grass and flowering trees, to think that natural law could somehow intervene with His creation is foolishness. Light already existed. It's form was changed on day four. It happened that way because God did not evolve the earth, but rather formed it. He did not evolve life, He created it. On day four, the sun moon and stars were created from the single entity He called light. That is 100% consistent with the Big Bang theory.
Science does well at examining what is. However, the study of the physical world around us cannot help us to know the supernatural force that created it. Scince can find many answers, but only faith can find God. It is that way because the Creator so designed it.
Just to give you a sense of place I will quote from the end of the second day to the end of the fourth:
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.
Gen 1:9 Then God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so.
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:11 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth"; and it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:13 So the evening and the morning were the third day.
Gen 1:14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;
Gen 1:15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so.
Gen 1:16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth,
Gen 1:18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Now, clearly Abraham was speaking with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, so what was he getting at? Grass can't survive without light and to me, it seems obvious that the light that was in the universe from the first day would not be enough. Did grass have a different form? Was Abraham saying "grass was there in principle"?
I have worked out that days in Genesis are days of a different magnitude, so it is not impossible that he meant "grass was there in principle", presumably waiting to grow into the grass we know today.
Theories?
Plants do not have to appear on the earth first. It could appear on other planets in the universe before the sun is made for the earth. The "earth" in verse 12 does not have to be the planet earth, but simply a "ground".
I think you are underestimating the power of God here.
Think about this;
In heaven there will be vegetation, trees, etc, but there will be no light (sun) or darkness, only the light of Him. So along the lines of the original question, the grass there will not really exist either because the sun will not exist?
Just to give you a sense of place I will quote from the end of the second day to the end of the fourth:
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.
Gen 1:9 Then God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so.
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:11 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth"; and it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:13 So the evening and the morning were the third day.
Gen 1:14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;
Gen 1:15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so.
Gen 1:16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth,
Gen 1:18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Now, clearly Abraham was speaking with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, so what was he getting at? Grass can't survive without light and to me, it seems obvious that the light that was in the universe from the first day would not be enough. Did grass have a different form? Was Abraham saying "grass was there in principle"?
I have worked out that days in Genesis are days of a different magnitude, so it is not impossible that he meant "grass was there in principle", presumably waiting to grow into the grass we know today.
Theories?
Grass couldn't go 24 hours without sun?
I would think it could.
__________________
My husband died on April 21, 2009, at the age of 50.
I covet your prayers especially for faith, for the just shall live by faith.
I have never supported myself in my life.
I need to choose a career direction, and I need to rest in God's care.
Just to give you a sense of place I will quote from the end of the second day to the end of the fourth:
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.
Gen 1:9 Then God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so.
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:11 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth"; and it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:13 So the evening and the morning were the third day.
Gen 1:14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;
Gen 1:15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so.
Gen 1:16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth,
Gen 1:18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Now, clearly Abraham was speaking with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, so what was he getting at? Grass can't survive without light and to me, it seems obvious that the light that was in the universe from the first day would not be enough. Did grass have a different form? Was Abraham saying "grass was there in principle"?
I have worked out that days in Genesis are days of a different magnitude, so it is not impossible that he meant "grass was there in principle", presumably waiting to grow into the grass we know today.
Theories?
Since God created the universe, then it's mere child's play for Him to create grass before the sun. The light before the sun is God's light as born again Christians know. The sun is simply the light that will sustain life on earth. Sceintists only understand what they can see which isn't very much. And even what they see, they can make very erroneous deductions about why the objects they see are there.
Just to give you a sense of place I will quote from the end of the second day to the end of the fourth:
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.
Gen 1:9 Then God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so.
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:11 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth"; and it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:13 So the evening and the morning were the third day.
Gen 1:14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;
Gen 1:15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so.
Gen 1:16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth,
Gen 1:18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Now, clearly Abraham was speaking with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, so what was he getting at? Grass can't survive without light and to me, it seems obvious that the light that was in the universe from the first day would not be enough. Did grass have a different form? Was Abraham saying "grass was there in principle"?
I have worked out that days in Genesis are days of a different magnitude, so it is not impossible that he meant "grass was there in principle", presumably waiting to grow into the grass we know today.
Theories?
The reason why grass existed before the sun was because of the light was gone and then God brought light back in Gen 1:14 as it states in the Gap Theory. And, No Grass was not spiritual as you state. Grass is Grass. Once you understand the Gap Theory then you will understand the grass was the same as of today. There was life between Gen 1:1 and 1:2
I will post some evidence and then give me your thoughts.
There is evidence in the bible the earth is older than what we think. It isn't my words but the words of the prophets. According to the God's revelations told the prophets, through OT and NT, the earth is older than humans. Could be millions and millions, possibly billions and billions, years old. Here is the evidence.
Genesis 1:1-2 (New International Version)
Genesis 1
The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
I want everyone to focus those words......When God creates.....It is perfect and whole. Verse 1 and Verse 2 are two different states of the earth as it states formless and empty in Gen 1:2. There is life in between verse one and two. How? Jeremiah speaks of it.
Jeremiah 4:23-26 (New International Version)
23 I looked at the earth,
and it was formless and empty(Same as Gen 1:2; This whole verses 23 - 26 is the events that took place when Gen 1:2 took place. They are the same. God was revealing this revelation to Jeremiah.);
and at the heavens,
and their light was gone(This indicates there was light before Gen 1:3. In Gen 1:3 God said let there be light. If Jeremiah 4:23-26 is right the beginning of Gen 1:2, then light was there before God brought it back in Gen 1:3).
24 I looked at the mountains,
and they were quaking;
all the hills were swaying.
25 I looked, and there were no people(There is no people. No Human Man was created yet. This would be correct because Adam and Eve were not created until Gen 1:26-28);
every bird in the sky had flown away(That means there were birds created before man was created).
26 I looked, and the fruitful land was a desert(Fruitful land is like Gen 1:1 and that fruitful land was a desert is Gen 1:2; Gen 1:1 and 1:2 are two different states of the earth);
all its towns lay in ruins
before the LORD, before his fierce anger(What! How can this be?!(Sarcasm;lol) If in Jer 4:25 it states there are no people/Man, then in verse 26 the towns/cities lay in ruins. The only way towns could exist is by some entity building them. There were people here before Adam and Eve. That is the point I wanted to get to.... I don't believe that they were man too. I don't believe in Evolution. That theory is bogus. I believe they were something else. All I know is that they made God angry to make God destroy their towns in verse 26....).
Now what are your thoughts people? I think earth could be millions, possibly billions, when Jeremiah states there were towns/cities that were laid waste by God's wrath. I believe from Adam to us now we could be 6000 to 8000 years old, but because Jeremiah talks about towns being laid waist when the earth was formless in Gen 1:2 then I believe the earth could be older than what earth creationist believe. Please don't flame me. I have posted evidence from the bible. I don't want to make enemies. I want to see what people think of Gen 1:1-2 and Jer 4:23-26 connections. Those people that lived in those towns, that God made ruins, lived before Adam and Eve was created by God. Also that is why grass was there before the sun. The reason is the light was there between Gen 1:1 and 1:2 but God made the light had gone away as it states Jeremiah 4:23.
Since God created the universe, then it's mere child's play for Him to create grass before the sun. The light before the sun is God's light as born again Christians know. The sun is simply the light that will sustain life on earth. Sceintists only understand what they can see which isn't very much. And even what they see, they can make very erroneous deductions about why the objects they see are there.
The sun/light existed between Gen 1:1-2 as it states in Jer 4:23-26. The grass was there because light was there in the Gap Theory. Grass grew from the light within the Gap Theory.
Hi OWG. Thanks for the reply. YOUR QUOTE: Interesting. I tend to believe that God created the material universe as an "estate" and "habitation" (Jude) for Lucifer and the angels long ago. The later casting down of Lucifer may have begun the destruction of earth's surface. I see Genesis One as not only the renewal of the earth's surface but a metaphor for the greater "restitution of all things": the restoration of God's damaged spiritual kingdom.
I believe that Hell is on the same physical/spiritual place that Eden is situated but Eden is protected by God’s Light whereas Hell is still full of dark deep water. So your quote from Jude 1:6 “And angels that kept not their own principality, but left their proper habitation, he hath kept in everlasting bonds under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.” Describes that part physical/spiritual prison and as I have said before, I am not sure if the demons are physically chained or because they are also now part physical from falling from the purely spiritual Heaven that is God’s abode, they are prevented from entering Heaven.
What?! lol.....Eden and Hell are not in the same place. In the NT Jesus death is associated with the death of Jonah in the belly of the great fish. Hell is in the middle of the earth and not in the same place as Eden.
I got this from religioustolerance website.
According to Terry Watkins at Dial-the-Truth Ministries:
There are over 162 references in the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) which warn of Hell.
Over 70 of these references are attributed to Jesus.
According to the gospels, Jesus spoke more on Hell than on any other subject. However, many skeptics and religious liberals suggest that the frequency with which Hell appears in individual gospels may reflect the beliefs of their authors or of the authors' faith group more than that of Jesus.
The word Hell in the Christian Scriptures appears frequently in:
Mark (3 occurrences),
Matthew (12),
Luke (3),
Acts (2),
Revelation (4).
Matthew 12:38-40 (New International Version)
The Sign of Jonah
38Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, "Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you." 39He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Romans 10:6-7 (New International Version)
6But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7"or 'Who will descend into the deep?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
Ephesians 4:7-9 (New International Version)
7But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8This is why it says:
"When he ascended on high,
he led captives in his train
and gave gifts to men." 9(What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?
The Apostle's Creed...Jesus Christ...died, and was buried, He descended into Hell. The third day, he rose again from the dead."
Hell is in the heart of the Earth. Jesus was talking about after he died on the cross in Matthew 12:38-40. He would make everything right again.
The light before the sun is God's light as born again Christians know. The sun is simply the light that will sustain life on earth. Sceintists only understand what they can see which isn't very much. And even what they see, they can make very erroneous deductions about why the objects they see are there. 
Linear Mode
