Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
Recently I have made the claim that most creationists interpret Genesis like it was a Dr. Seuss book. After some thinking on the subject, I realize I had it backward. The problem with most Creationists is that they do not read Genesis like it was a Dr. Seuss book.
Let me explain. Take one of my favorite Dr. Seuss books, "How The Grinch Stole Christmas." If you were to read this book like an historical narrative, it would make no sense. There are no "Whos," there is no "Whoville," and there certainly is no Grinch. It is impossible for a tiny dog like Max to move a sleigh filled ten feet high with heavy objects and it is just as impossible for the Grinch to lift such a sliegh over his head.
Does this mean that "How The Grinch Stole Christmas" is filled with lies? Does this mean we can find no truths in its pages? No. The book tells a story about what celebrating and spending time together on holidays should be about. It also tells a story about redemption. The Grinch is the meanest, most self-lothing kind of creature imaginable... but in the end he completely redeems himself. The book has plenty of truths to teach, even though it is written with fanciful prose.
If we read Genesis like an historical narrative, it is just as silly as "How The Grinch Stole Christmas." Complete with a Rib-Woman, a Talking Snake, a Tree of Life, a Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil, and a Flaming Sword. If on the other hand, it is read as a story designed to teach about the nature of sin, the relationship between God and Man, and a story of the loss of innocence, it actually does have some truths to teach.
Creationists often ask, "how am I supposed to know when the Bible is literal and when it is a metaphor?" The answer is, if it sounds like Dr. Seuss wrote the passage, it should be taken as metaphor, not literal history.
__________________ “The biblical story of the perfect and finished creation from which human beings fell into sin is pre-Darwinian mythology and post-Darwinian nonsense." -Bishop John Shelby Spong
"It is not the obligation of the State to reconcile various faiths with reality. Do it yourself." -Atomweaver
"We have designed our civilization based on science and technology and at the same time arranged things so that almost no one understands anything at all about science and technology. This is a clear prescription for disaster."
- Carl Sagan (Demon Haunted World)
Creationists often ask, "how am I supposed to know when the Bible is literal and when it is a metaphor?" The answer is, if it sounds like Dr. Seuss wrote the passage, it should be taken as metaphor, not literal history.
If that's the way you want to look at it, go right ahead; but remember, I eat atheists and agnostics for breakfast with Genesis; so if you want to envision it as me eating atheists and agnostics for breakfast with Dr Seuss instead - be my guest.
Recently I have made the claim that most creationists interpret Genesis like it was a Dr. Seuss book. After some thinking on the subject, I realize I had it backward. The problem with most Creationists is that they do not read Genesis like it was a Dr. Seuss book.
Let me explain. Take one of my favorite Dr. Seuss books, "How The Grinch Stole Christmas." If you were to read this book like an historical narrative, it would make no sense. There are no "Whos," there is no "Whoville," and there certainly is no Grinch. It is impossible for a tiny dog like Max to move a sleigh filled ten feet high with heavy objects and it is just as impossible for the Grinch to lift such a sliegh over his head.
Does this mean that "How The Grinch Stole Christmas" is filled with lies? Does this mean we can find no truths in its pages? No. The book tells a story about what celebrating and spending time together on holidays should be about. It also tells a story about redemption. The Grinch is the meanest, most self-lothing kind of creature imaginable... but in the end he completely redeems himself. The book has plenty of truths to teach, even though it is written with fanciful prose.
If we read Genesis like an historical narrative, it is just as silly as "How The Grinch Stole Christmas." Complete with a Rib-Woman, a Talking Snake, a Tree of Life, a Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil, and a Flaming Sword. If on the other hand, it is read as a story designed to teach about the nature of sin, the relationship between God and Man, and a story of the loss of innocence, it actually does have some truths to teach.
Creationists often ask, "how am I supposed to know when the Bible is literal and when it is a metaphor?" The answer is, if it sounds like Dr. Seuss wrote the passage, it should be taken as metaphor, not literal history.
il just remind you that the dates and history the bible mentions such as wars/kings/places/people are accounts of real history ,not fable(in case you didnt know)
it is the miracles that are in question ,yes the bible is full of parables and analogies and parts are taken too literally by some people, i believe in the bible but i dont believe it is innerant or that god has majically preserved it in its entirety , i believe the crux of the story and dont worry about the rest,and believe thats all that is intended
but what you have to realise is that when the bible mentions a miracle ,you say it is a work of fiction, for one reason only,and that is because you have never seen one yourself, and that the way you see the world
is the right way,as no one is ever wrong in their own opinion,
we are like blind men when it comes to the universe and our own existance, we think we know a lot but in actuality we are severely lacking any real knowledge,
if there is a god (which real science allows for)then our own very existance and that of nature is a bigger miracle than anything mentioned in the bible, so its contents should not be ridiculed but investigated
i believe that god intentionally did not give us the experimental evidence of his existance,because he didnt intend for this life to be a paradise and has some other mysterious plan in motion,
il just remind you that the dates and history the bible mentions such as wars/kings/places/people are accounts of real history ,not fable(in case you didnt know)
Yeah, but there are no specific places or dates mentioned in the book of Genesis dealing with the creation of the universe.
If that's the way you want to look at it, go right ahead; but remember, I eat atheists and agnostics for breakfast with Genesis; so if you want to envision it as me eating atheists and agnostics for breakfast with Dr Seuss instead - be my guest.
But will you eat them in a box, or will you eat them with a fox?
Yeah, but there are no specific places or dates mentioned in the book of Genesis dealing with the creation of the universe.
no there isnt, as all it was intended to be was a analogious metaphorical account, how would god explain the creation of the universe to an intellectually limited human being ? it says that he did it by his power ,it would be impossible for us to understand "how" he did it
if he is real he is a form of life that we cannot fathom ,because when we think of god we think in human terms
no there isnt, as all it was intended to be was a analogious metaphorical account, how would god explain the creation of the universe to an intellectually limited human being ? it says that he did it by his power ,it would be impossible for us to understand "how" he did it
if he is real he is a form of life that we cannot fathom ,because when we think of god we think in human terms
Yeah, basically. I don't think you can read Genesis as a science textbook, because mankind at that time did not have the concepts necessary. There are some parts of the Bible that are clearly metaphors (book of Revelations, the introduction of Genesis, etc.), and there are some parts that are reasonably in line with history, accounting for the usual 'make our side look 100 times better' distortions.
il just remind you that the dates and history the bible mentions such as wars/kings/places/people are accounts of real history ,not fable(in case you didnt know)
When it came to recent history, the writers certainly were fairly accurate. I am mainly referring to the early chapters of Genesis.
Originally Posted by huggybear
it is the miracles that are in question ,yes the bible is full of parables and analogies and parts are taken too literally by some people, i believe in the bible but i dont believe it is innerant or that god has majically preserved it in its entirety , i believe the crux of the story and dont worry about the rest,and believe thats all that is intended
I am glad to see you do not take the Bible as inerrant. It was, afterall, written by fallible humans, not God. I agree with the rest of your statement as well.
Originally Posted by huggybear
but what you have to realise is that when the bible mentions a miracle ,you say it is a work of fiction, for one reason only,and that is because you have never seen one yourself, and that the way you see the world
is the right way,as no one is ever wrong in their own opinion,
I am not specifically referring to miracles. Christianity is based on a number of miracles such as the virgin birth, the resurrection, etc. What I am referring to are what are clearly silly references if taken literally, like Adam and Eve eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge and then suddenlly realizing they are naked. They then hide and wear fig leaves. Who are they hiding their nudity from? God? Each other? The animals? It is silly if taken as historical.
Originally Posted by huggybear
we are like blind men when it comes to the universe and our own existance, we think we know a lot but in actuality we are severely lacking any real knowledge,
Rather depressing, but OK.
Originally Posted by huggybear
if there is a god (which real science allows for)then our own very existance and that of nature is a bigger miracle than anything mentioned in the bible, so its contents should not be ridiculed but investigated
OK.
Originally Posted by huggybear
i believe that god intentionally did not give us the experimental evidence of his existance,because he didnt intend for this life to be a paradise and has some other mysterious plan in motion,
OK. I have no problem with that.
__________________ “The biblical story of the perfect and finished creation from which human beings fell into sin is pre-Darwinian mythology and post-Darwinian nonsense." -Bishop John Shelby Spong
"It is not the obligation of the State to reconcile various faiths with reality. Do it yourself." -Atomweaver
"We have designed our civilization based on science and technology and at the same time arranged things so that almost no one understands anything at all about science and technology. This is a clear prescription for disaster."
- Carl Sagan (Demon Haunted World)
If that's the way you want to look at it, go right ahead; but remember, I eat atheists and agnostics for breakfast with Genesis; so if you want to envision it as me eating atheists and agnostics for breakfast with Dr Seuss instead - be my guest.
Just remember AVET.. Evolution PWNDS your interpretation of Genesis everytime!! Just like My Nasal Ruby Challenge PWND your silly Apple Challenge!!!
(Thanks for your lack of contribution..)
__________________ “The biblical story of the perfect and finished creation from which human beings fell into sin is pre-Darwinian mythology and post-Darwinian nonsense." -Bishop John Shelby Spong
"It is not the obligation of the State to reconcile various faiths with reality. Do it yourself." -Atomweaver
"We have designed our civilization based on science and technology and at the same time arranged things so that almost no one understands anything at all about science and technology. This is a clear prescription for disaster."
- Carl Sagan (Demon Haunted World)
But will you eat them in a box, or will you eat them with a fox?
I do not like Green Eggs and Ham!
I do not like them Sam I AM!!!!
__________________ “The biblical story of the perfect and finished creation from which human beings fell into sin is pre-Darwinian mythology and post-Darwinian nonsense." -Bishop John Shelby Spong
"It is not the obligation of the State to reconcile various faiths with reality. Do it yourself." -Atomweaver
"We have designed our civilization based on science and technology and at the same time arranged things so that almost no one understands anything at all about science and technology. This is a clear prescription for disaster."
- Carl Sagan (Demon Haunted World)
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