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4Simpsons Blog- What I Want From Darwinians and Dawkinites
A 4Simpsons Blog guest posed a couple good questions
I would like to ask you, what is it that you want from the evolution scientists? What would you like them to say or do?
These were so important that I decided to do another post on them. Here are a few things I’d like from Darwinian evolutionist scientists. Note that none of these are terribly time consuming and mainly center on being candid.
Stop demonizing people as anti-science religious fundamentalists just for criticizing Darwinian evolution. It is petty, it is bad debating and it reveals your insecurities.
<op acting as if we have never read anything about Darwinian evolution and haven’t done our homework. We could be wrong, but these are cheap and unproductive debating tricks.
Teach the debate and acknowledge the many flaws and gaps in your theory, such as going from single to double strand DNA, not having enough time to evolve and these.
Admit that the movie “Inherit the Wind” was false and misleading propaganda and bears little resemblance to why and how the Scopes trial played out. Also, help ensure that it not be shown in public schools, unless as an example of how despicable propaganda can be. <LI class=MsoNormal>Admit that the pre-Cambrian explosion fossil finds in China crushed your “science of the gaps” theory which held that your transition forms just didn’t fossilize.
Don’t pretend that you have lots of fossil evidence when even your leaders admit how big your problem is there.
Remind people that even IF Darwinian evolution were true that it still doesn’t explain how the universe came into existence and where the first living cells came from. Therefore, even IF it were true one couldn’t use it as an atheistic manifesto as so many of your leaders do.
Acknowledge that science is not some sin-free monolith where everyone has pure motives and no one disagrees. Just because an endeavor is scientific doesn’t mean that pride and greed won’t lead people to do bad things. <LI class=MsoNormal>Acknowledge that science has done 180 degree turns on numerous topics.
Acknowledge all the frauds that have taken place with “missing links” (Piltdown Man, Haeckel’s Embryos, etc.) and agree that people have a right to be skeptical of your latest “find.
Please ask the ACLU to stop wasting our time and money with ridiculous lawsuits like the Cobb County, GA case where they “convinced judges to rule that that placing disclaimer stickers warning that evolution is “a theory, not a fact” in public school science textbooks is an unconstitutional government intrusion on religious liberty.” I’ve read the First Amendment a couple times and think it took a lot of creativity to find that the sticker either A) was due to a law passed by Congress or B) was an establishment of religion or even an endorsement. More here.
Acknowledge the logical conclusions of a materialistic worldview completely driven by random chemical reactions and the survival of the fittest. It leads to all kinds of horrific behavior. That isn’t a reason Darwinian evolution is wrong, but it is just one of the reasons it is important to expose its flaws.
Do you know there is someone from the debate forums who follows me all over the christian forums and complains.
I do not know what to do with these forums because the moderators do not look at the overall discussion, sometimes someone is going to be told to go home and re-organise their thinking, afterall this is a debate.
I am just going to post this and will be back but I will not be going back and forth just bcause you will claim you were flamed.
A 4Simpsons Blog guest posed a couple good questions
I would like to ask you, what is it that you want from the evolution scientists? What would you like them to say or do?
These were so important that I decided to do another post on them. Here are a few things I’d like from Darwinian evolutionist scientists. Note that none of these are terribly time consuming and mainly center on being candid.
Stop demonizing people as anti-science religious fundamentalists just for criticizing Darwinian evolution. It is petty, it is bad debating and it reveals your insecurities.
<op acting as if we have never read anything about Darwinian evolution and haven’t done our homework. We could be wrong, but these are cheap and unproductive debating tricks.
Teach the debate and acknowledge the many flaws and gaps in your theory, such as going from single to double strand DNA, not having enough time to evolve and these.
Admit that the movie “Inherit the Wind” was false and misleading propaganda and bears little resemblance to why and how the Scopes trial played out. Also, help ensure that it not be shown in public schools, unless as an example of how despicable propaganda can be. <LI class=MsoNormal>Admit that the pre-Cambrian explosion fossil finds in China crushed your “science of the gaps” theory which held that your transition forms just didn’t fossilize.
Don’t pretend that you have lots of fossil evidence when even your leaders admit how big your problem is there.
Remind people that even IF Darwinian evolution were true that it still doesn’t explain how the universe came into existence and where the first living cells came from. Therefore, even IF it were true one couldn’t use it as an atheistic manifesto as so many of your leaders do.
Acknowledge that science is not some sin-free monolith where everyone has pure motives and no one disagrees. Just because an endeavor is scientific doesn’t mean that pride and greed won’t lead people to do bad things. <LI class=MsoNormal>Acknowledge that science has done 180 degree turns on numerous topics.
Acknowledge all the frauds that have taken place with “missing links” (Piltdown Man, Haeckel’s Embryos, etc.) and agree that people have a right to be skeptical of your latest “find.
Please ask the ACLU to stop wasting our time and money with ridiculous lawsuits like the Cobb County, GA case where they “convinced judges to rule that that placing disclaimer stickers warning that evolution is “a theory, not a fact” in public school science textbooks is an unconstitutional government intrusion on religious liberty.” I’ve read the First Amendment a couple times and think it took a lot of creativity to find that the sticker either A) was due to a law passed by Congress or B) was an establishment of religion or even an endorsement. More here.
Acknowledge the logical conclusions of a materialistic worldview completely driven by random chemical reactions and the survival of the fittest. It leads to all kinds of horrific behavior. That isn’t a reason Darwinian evolution is wrong, but it is just one of the reasons it is important to expose its flaws.
Do you know there is someone from the debate forums who follows me all over the christian forums and complains.
I do not know what to do with these forums because the moderators do not look at the overall discussion, sometimes someone is going to be told to go home and re-organise their thinking, afterall this is a debate.
I am just going to post this and will be back but I will not be going back and forth just bcause you will claim you were flamed.
Or, to sum it up:
Please admit this list of false statements is true.
__________________ MOONLANCER DID IT -- CASE CLOSED
* Stop saying people are not true Christians because they accept evolution. Show some respect for people who believe differently to you, and stop speaking to them in a patronising and condescending manner. Show some respect for the knowledge of scientists who spend their lives studying a subject to the best of their abilities, and who have provided the modern technology that gives you such a good quality of life.
* Stop acting like scientists don't know what they're talking about just because they hold all theories to be tentative.
* Teach people the evidence that cannot be 'interpreted' to support the bible, no matter what way you twist it, such as geology. Example: the Ballyferriter area in the south of Ireland.
* Admit that creationists who were making a creationist movie gained an interview with Richard Dawkins under false pretenses and then asked him misleading questions in an attempt to make him look ignorant or confused.
* Stop pretending that fossils are evidence of the Flood. They are not, and never will be.
* Stop confusing evolution with abiogenesis, and stop conflating evolution with atheism. Also, stop accusing scientists of having an atheist agenda - it's nothing but a smear tactic on your part.
* Stop saying that science is bad because can change in light of new evidence.
* Stop bringing up Piltdown Man and Haekel's embryos as if they were not, in fact, revealed to be frauds by scientists or discarded because of new evidence. These were mistakes corrected by scientists, not creationists, and you have no right to keep harping on about them except as another smear tactic.
* Stop trying to force your ignorance of science into school textbooks. Stop trying to force your religious beliefs into schools.
* Stop conflating the scientific theory of evolution with social Darwinism. The theory is only a description of what is, not what is right or wrong, and it is of no consequence to the theory if it is used to justify immoral acts. Go down that road and we can start pointing fingers at all the atrocities committed by Christians in the name of their religion.
__________________ "Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do."
"I would rather offend God a thousand times and save one life than spend a lifetime in hollow praise, not understanding the universe or it's workings, just to save my own soul." -AstonomyMike
A 4Simpsons Blog guest posed a couple good questions
I would like to ask you, what is it that you want from the evolution scientists? What would you like them to say or do?
These were so important that I decided to do another post on them. Here are a few things I’d like from Darwinian evolutionist scientists. Note that none of these are terribly time consuming and mainly center on being candid.
Stop demonizing people as anti-science religious fundamentalists just for criticizing Darwinian evolution. It is petty, it is bad debating and it reveals your insecurities.
The tries from fundamentalist (ID-)creationists to get (ID-)creationism taught in science classes without doing the required work beforehand, shows that they are anti-science. There's nothing demonizing about calling a spade a spade.
stop acting as if we have never read anything about Darwinian evolution and haven’t done our homework. We could be wrong, but these are cheap and unproductive debating tricks.
But you haven't done your homework. This is continuously shown in the discussions surrounding this topic. If you want us to stop acting like you didn't do your homework, first actually do it.
Teach the debate and acknowledge the many flaws and gaps in your theory, such as going from single to double strand DNA, not having enough time to evolve and these.
"No transitional fossils". Say no more. See point two. You haven't done your homework.
Admit that the movie “Inherit the Wind” was false and misleading propaganda and bears little resemblance to why and how the Scopes trial played out. Also, help ensure that it not be shown in public schools, unless as an example of how despicable propaganda can be.
Knowing nothing about the film, how about you guys stop making ignorant propaganda pieces like "expelled", where you routinely twist the facts surrounding these issues. Remove the beam in your own eyes first, then we'll talk again.
<LI class=MsoNormal>Admit that the pre-Cambrian explosion fossil finds in China crushed your “science of the gaps” theory which held that your transition forms just didn’t fossilize.
What was that about not doing your homework? Why do you demonstrate that you didn't do your homework after complaining that we say you don't? Kind of stupid, no?
Don’t pretend that you have lots of fossil evidence when even your leaders admit how big your problem is there.
Which leaders? We have lots of fossils, millions of them. Thousands of human evolution alone. Doing your homework?
Remind people that even IF Darwinian evolution were true that it still doesn’t explain how the universe came into existence and where the first living cells came from. Therefore, even IF it were true one couldn’t use it as an atheistic manifesto as so many of your leaders do.
Oh, this is just classic. Lying dishonest jerk. We are continuously explaining to you guys that evolution doesn't explain how the universe came into existence when you guys trot out the fallacy again that "evolution doesn't explain the origin of the universe". You are making the conflation, not us.
Acknowledge that science is not some sin-free monolith where everyone has pure motives and no one disagrees. Just because an endeavor is scientific doesn’t mean that pride and greed won’t lead people to do bad things.
Who claimed that? Why do you keep trotting out things that we never say? That's either lying or not doing your homework.
Acknowledge that science has done 180 degree turns on numerous topics.
And? Where have we denied this?
Acknowledge all the frauds that have taken place with “missing links” (Piltdown Man, Haeckel’s Embryos, etc.) and agree that people have a right to be skeptical of your latest “find.
Those aren't used as evidence for evolution and acknowledged to be wrong for a long time. Do your homework (see point two)!
Please ask the ACLU to stop wasting our time and money with ridiculous lawsuits like the Cobb County, GA case where they “convinced judges to rule that that placing disclaimer stickers warning that evolution is “a theory, not a fact” in public school science textbooks is an unconstitutional government intrusion on religious liberty.” I’ve read the First Amendment a couple times and think it took a lot of creativity to find that the sticker either A) was due to a law passed by Congress or B) was an establishment of religion or even an endorsement. More here.
Haven't done your homework again.
Acknowledge the logical conclusions of a materialistic worldview completely driven by random chemical reactions and the survival of the fittest. It leads to all kinds of horrific behavior. That isn’t a reason Darwinian evolution is wrong, but it is just one of the reasons it is important to expose its flaws.
Here you're just lying.
Do you know there is someone from the debate forums who follows me all over the christian forums and complains.
I couldn't care less. Suits you right, though. You're a liar and should be exposed everywhere.
I do not know what to do with these forums because the moderators do not look at the overall discussion, sometimes someone is going to be told to go home and re-organise their thinking, afterall this is a debate.
I am just going to post this and will be back but I will not be going back and forth just bcause you will claim you were flamed.
Of course you won't be going back and forth. You know you don't have a case.
__________________
Tom
'What luck for rulers, that men do not think.'
-Ascribed to Adolf Hitler-
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glas by Lewis Caroll-
Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.
I wish i could subtract rep though. You should clean out your own rubbish before demanding that others do it, and frankly the amount of lying you do speakout...
Athrond
Last edited by Athrond; 7th March 2008 at 09:50 AM.
Reason: adding tomk80.
] A 4Simpsons Blog guest posed a couple good questions [/font]
I would like to ask you, what is it that you want from the evolution scientists? What would you like them to say or do?
These were so important that I decided to do another post on them. Here are a few things I’d like from Darwinian evolutionist scientists. Note that none of these are terribly time consuming and mainly center on being candid.
Stop demonizing people as anti-science religious fundamentalists just for criticizing Darwinian evolution. It is petty, it is bad debating and it reveals your insecurities.
I'll stop doing that as soon as you show me a single person who criticizes the ToE for purely scientific reasons.
<op acting as if we have never read anything about Darwinian evolution and haven’t done our homework. We could be wrong, but these are cheap and unproductive debating tricks.
I refrain from doing that as far as possible. Unfortunately, the majority of creationists have not done their homework.
Teach the debate and acknowledge the many flaws and gaps in your theory, such as going from single to double strand DNA, not having enough time to evolve and these.
There are flaws and gaps in the ToE, sure. The only reason you have no flaws and gaps in your theory is that you don't have a theory to begin with. There is nothing else to teach.
Admit that the movie “Inherit the Wind” was false and misleading propaganda and bears little resemblance to why and how the Scopes trial played out. Also, help ensure that it not be shown in public schools, unless as an example of how
despicable propaganda can be.
Never seen it, never used it as an argument for anything, and neither did anyone I know.
<LI class=MsoNormal>Admit that the pre-Cambrian explosion fossil finds in China crushed your “science of the gaps” theory which held that your transition forms just didn’t fossilize.
Which fossils would that be?
Don’t pretend that you have lots of fossil evidence when even your leaders admit how big your problem is there.
Oh, our leaders. Well, if you could link me to one of this "leaders" and then link me to an example of said leader admitting that the fossil record poses a problem for the ToE, I'll do that.
Remind people that even IF Darwinian evolution were true that it still doesn’t explain how the universe came into existence and where the first living cells came from.
Well, duh. If quantum mechanics was true, it still wouldn't explain why Ivan the Terrible raided Novgorod.
Therefore, even IF it were true one couldn’t use it as an atheistic manifesto as so many of your leaders do.
Like, who?
Acknowledge that science is not some sin-free monolith where everyone has pure motives and no one disagrees.
Find me one scientist who believes that. Just one.
Just because an endeavor is scientific doesn’t mean that pride and greed won’t lead people to do bad things.
Agreed. So? Did anyone ever claim the opposite?And since we're at it, you might ponder the Discovery Institutes's output of useful science vs. the Discovery Institutes's income through books, DVDs and boardgames.
<LI class=MsoNormal>Acknowledge that science has done 180 degree turns on numerous topics.
Rational people tend to do that when they make a mistake. I do know that the concept is utterly alien to creationists, of course.
Acknowledge all the frauds that have taken place with “missing links” (Piltdown Man, Haeckel’s Embryos, etc.) and agree that people have a right to be skeptical of your latest “find.
I notice that your list of "all the frauds" stops after two entries and 90 years ago. Perhaps it might be time to find a more recent example - preferably one not uncovered by evolutionists.
Please ask the ACLU to stop wasting our time and money with ridiculous lawsuits like the Cobb County, GA case where they “convinced judges to rule that that placing disclaimer stickers warning that evolution is “a theory, not a fact” in public school science textbooks is an unconstitutional government intrusion on religious liberty.” I’ve read the First Amendment a couple times and think it took a lot of creativity to find that the sticker either A) was due to a law passed by Congress or B) was an establishment of religion or even an endorsement. More here.
More money could be saved by not printing nonsense disclaimers .
Acknowledge the logical conclusions of a materialistic worldview completely driven by random chemical reactions and the survival of the fittest. It leads to all kinds of horrific behavior. That isn’t a reason Darwinian evolution is wrong, but it is just one of the reasons it is important to expose its flaws.
The logical conclusion of gravity is throwing people off skyscrapers. Agreed? Oh, and chemical reactions are not random.
Do you know there is someone from the debate forums who follows me all over the christian forums and complains.
Maybe someone took offense to your blatant self-advertising of your blog.
I do not know what to do with these forums because the moderators do not look at the overall discussion, sometimes someone is going to be told to go home and re-organise their thinking, afterall this is a debate.
I am just going to post this and will be back but I will not be going back and forth just bcause you will claim you were flamed.
OK.
__________________ "Myles, one can tell you're a liberal just by observing how many words it takes you to say nothing. Your non-American spelling of "honor" is also a giveaway."
- Andy Schlafly, conservapedia.com To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Oh, our leaders. Well, if you could link me to one of this "leaders" and then link me to an example of said leader admitting that the fossil record poses a problem for the ToE, I'll do that.
Cue the Gould quote-mines.
__________________
Tom
'What luck for rulers, that men do not think.'
-Ascribed to Adolf Hitler-
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glas by Lewis Caroll-
Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.
I'm wondering about the emphasis on "darwinian" evolution. The ToE has changed a lot since Darwin...
__________________ "One of the most basic laws in the universe is the Second Law of Thermodynamics. [...] Evolution argues differently against a law that is accepted EVERYWHERE BY EVERYONE. Evolution says that we started out simple, and over time became more complex. That just isn't possible: UNLESS there is a giant outside source of energy supplying the Earth with huge amounts of energy. If there were such a source, scientists would certainly know about it."
The talk.origins anti-quotemine page already looms in my browser's background.
__________________ "Myles, one can tell you're a liberal just by observing how many words it takes you to say nothing. Your non-American spelling of "honor" is also a giveaway."
- Andy Schlafly, conservapedia.com To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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