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4th March 2008, 05:53 AM
| | | Originally Posted by DiscipleWhomJesusLoves  1. I'm not fully WOF but the WOF icon seems to fit me best -- you need the icon to post here , so...
2. How do I know WOF is right? I don't agree 100% but I agree with a lot of stuff they teach. How do I know something taught (from whichever denomination/preacher) is right or wrong? As I've explained earlier, I go by the anointing within, the witness of the Spirit, then the Word too of cse. That's why I said we have to be trained up in this area -- how to discern in our spirit that what we are hearing is right/wrong/half-true, instead of just using our heads to reason and rationalize and debate. The Pharisees were full of scriptures, but they didn't recognize their Messiah.
3. Joseph Prince is my senior pastor. He is from Singapore. The church is in Singapore and the services are in English (Singapore English though). To me, IMHO, he's the best preacher I've ever heard so far (I'm not saying this just becos I attend the church). His calling is to preach the Gospel in all it's purity, the way Paul preached it. We are an independent/non-denominational church. 
That is cool. Thank you for clear up my wonder about Joseph Prince. Yeah I can see that he is good teaching. I do sometime watch him on tv.  |
4th March 2008, 06:09 PM
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Reps: 150,615,601,519,800,448 (power: 150,615,601,519,809) | | Originally Posted by DiscipleWhomJesusLoves 1. I'm not fully WOF but the WOF icon seems to fit me best -- you need the icon to post here , so...
2. How do I know WOF is right? I don't agree 100% but I agree with a lot of stuff they teach.
I am fully Word/Faith and I don't agree 100% with everything "they" teach. Word of Faith is a movement at this point, not a full denomination. There is no official leadership, although men like Kenyon/Hagin/Copeland are unofficially considered the leaders. If you compare all preachers who consider themselves Word/Faith you will find some differences. Originally Posted by DiscipleWhomJesusLoves How do I know something taught (from whichever denomination/preacher) is right or wrong? As I've explained earlier, I go by the anointing within, the witness of the Spirit, then the Word too of cse. That's why I said we have to be trained up in this area -- how to discern in our spirit that what we are hearing is right/wrong/half-true, instead of just using our heads to reason and rationalize and debate. The Pharisees were full of scriptures, but they didn't recognize their Messiah.
True. The annointing, the witness and the Word are all important: but does it stop there? True. The Pharisees knew scripture, but had no witness.
Today though, there are those in the church who are born again believers, know the Word, are led by the Spirit and experience the annointing -- yet they look at WoF and call us heretics.
Now am I wrong and these people are not really born again? Am I right, but we have understanding differences between us. Am I right about them and wrong about us and we are really heretics --- NAH!!!
So how do we know? We both have the annointing; we both claim a witness of the Spirit; and we both know scripture (they can quote rings around most of us).
How do we rectify this gulf between us? If we ignore it and say "we are saved; they are saved; no problem" then the body is divided. We are not supposed to be divided. Originally Posted by DiscipleWhomJesusLoves 3. Joseph Prince is my senior pastor. He is from Singapore. The church is in Singapore and the services are in English (Singapore English though). To me, IMHO, he's the best preacher I've ever heard so far (I'm not saying this just becos I attend the church). His calling is to preach the Gospel in all it's purity, the way Paul preached it. We are an independent/non-denominational church.
Well, your HO is quite right. He could quite possibly be the best preacher out there. The first time I heard him the Spirit stirred my soul and told me to latch onto this one. I've been listening ever since.
In His Love
Bob |
4th March 2008, 06:20 PM
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Reps: 150,615,601,519,800,448 (power: 150,615,601,519,809) | | Originally Posted by lyonguard There are so many things that bring us to the conclusion that our way is the correct way. One of the main ones is the infilling of the Holy Spirit.
The Calvinist says he is infilled with the Holy Spirit. Originally Posted by lyonguard Once that occurs, everything becomes so much clearer. We have that inner witness.
The Calvinist says he has inner witness from God (Holy Spirit). Originally Posted by lyonguard Then there are signs and wonders that follow to confirm the preaching of the Word.
Now here you might have me. The Calvinist says "show me". Or they say "why isn't there record in America of an amputee growing back his limbs; and if there is show me the evidence." Originally Posted by lyonguard And as time has progressed, more light has been given for our understanding.
This is difficult because as sure as we are that WOF is the correct way, others are certain they are correct. What do you think about it?
My point exactly.
So let's pick a point. We believe that God calls us and we respond. We see the cross and accept what Jesus did for us there and it is this acceptance of salvation, this belief in Jesus, that saves.
The Calvinist believes that God has predestined us to salvation; that He has taken us and regenerated us with no acceptance on our part and changed us from the inside out. It is this regeneration that then allows us to choose to follow Him, in fact makes us want to follow him; and so we then "choose" to follow the will of God as He has predestined and preordained us to do.
Sit down with a Calvinist and it isn't as easy as "the annointing", the "inner witness", "knowing the Word", "leading of the Holy Spirit". We both have these, yet we teach a different doctrine. Why? (Who's right? -- we are, of course.)
In His Love
Bob |
4th March 2008, 07:38 PM
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Reps: 60,439 (power: 69) | | Originally Posted by ABlessedMan So let's pick a point. We believe that God calls us and we respond. We see the cross and accept what Jesus did for us there and it is this acceptance of salvation, this belief in Jesus, that saves.
The Calvinist believes that God has predestined us to salvation; that He has taken us and regenerated us with no acceptance on our part and changed us from the inside out. It is this regeneration that then allows us to choose to follow Him, in fact makes us want to follow him; and so we then "choose" to follow the will of God as He has predestined and preordained us to do.
Sit down with a Calvinist and it isn't as easy as "the annointing", the "inner witness", "knowing the Word", "leading of the Holy Spirit". We both have these, yet we teach a different doctrine. Why? (Who's right? -- we are, of course.)
In His Love
Bob
I beg to differ. Since we know we are right, we have confidence and the power of God on our side. Then the Holy Spirit is able to reveal the truth to them through us.
If we are in error, then it should work in the reverse with the power of God working through them to reveal the truth through them to us. |
4th March 2008, 09:11 PM
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Reps: 4,092,233,925,023,693 (power: 4,092,233,925,032) | | | [quote:True. The annointing, the witness and the Word are all important: but does it stop there? True. The Pharisees knew scripture, but had no witness.
Today though, there are those in the church who are born again believers, know the Word, are led by the Spirit and experience the annointing -- yet they look at WoF and call us heretics.
Now am I wrong and these people are not really born again? Am I right, but we have understanding differences between us. Am I right about them and wrong about us and we are really heretics --- NAH!!!]
I don't believe that if one is being led by the Spirit, he would label WOF ministers or any legitimate minister of the Word (except true cult leaders) heretics. Yes, they may say that the anointing within/Holy Spirit told them so, but I believe it is nothing more than their own emotions or personal biasness or jealousy. That's why you have flaky Christians who say, "The Spirit told me to divorce my husband and marry this other man who is well, married."
That's precisely why I said that the majority of the church needs to be more developed in the area of perceiving in our spirits whether what we are hearing is truth or lies or half-truths. It may not be an overnight thing to be able to perceive rightly, but it's a starting point.
Perhaps we can start another thread on this subject -- how does one listen to the anointing within to tell truth from error? I hardly hear this being discussed, but what I see is a lot of scriptures being thrown here and there to support one's doctrine or to tear down another's doctrine.
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even when you have just blown it. |
4th March 2008, 09:23 PM
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Reps: 4,092,233,925,023,693 (power: 4,092,233,925,032) | | | Perhaps I should start:
How does the witness within work? I mean how do you know if something you hear is God's truth, error or half-truth?
Well, for a start, it should not cause fear. It should not put a heavy yoke on you. It should not cause you to feel condemned and dirty. In other words, you don't leave the service feeling weighed down, not good enough and feeling like God is going to strike you unless you pull up your socks.
No, you should leave the service with a spring in your step, like you just got a shot of life into your veins. You should feel light in your spirit, as if some heavy yoke has been lifted or broken. There is a new boldness/hope to face your challenges.
This are just some of my own pointers, which are by no means exhaustive. I also tend to use this verse as a marker:
James 3:17
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.
BTW: women are supposed to be better at this than men. Some people call it gut-feel, intuition, and women seem to be more 'developed' in this area. A classic example is this: You meet a businessman who's really charming and has an excellent business proposal for you. On the surface, everything looks and sounds great to you. But your wife tells you: I'm not sure about this guy. I don't think he's that simple. There's just something about him. I can't quite pin it down but be careful. You brush off your wife's comments, only to tell yourself that you should have heeded her advice months later.
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4th March 2008, 11:33 PM
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Reps: 60,439 (power: 69) | | Originally Posted by DiscipleWhomJesusLoves Perhaps I should start:
How does the witness within work? I mean how do you know if something you hear is God's truth, error or half-truth?
Well, for a start, it should not cause fear. It should not put a heavy yoke on you. It should not cause you to feel condemned and dirty. In other words, you don't leave the service feeling weighed down, not good enough and feeling like God is going to strike you unless you pull up your socks.
No, you should leave the service with a spring in your step, like you just got a shot of life into your veins. You should feel light in your spirit, as if some heavy yoke has been lifted or broken. There is a new boldness/hope to face your challenges.
This are just some of my own pointers, which are by no means exhaustive. I also tend to use this verse as a marker:
James 3:17
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.
BTW: women are supposed to be better at this than men. Some people call it gut-feel, intuition, and women seem to be more 'developed' in this area. A classic example is this: You meet a businessman who's really charming and has an excellent business proposal for you. On the surface, everything looks and sounds great to you. But your wife tells you: I'm not sure about this guy. I don't think he's that simple. There's just something about him. I can't quite pin it down but be careful. You brush off your wife's comments, only to tell yourself that you should have heeded her advice months later.
That is a good thread to start. You could title it "Why men should listen to their wives!" 
Seriously, I like the idea of the thread... |
4th March 2008, 11:40 PM
| | | 
Originally Posted by ABlessedMan Well, can anyone really know for sure that their belief is right? Perhaps. But if you knew that Word of Faith was not right I would assume that you would not be in the movement.
Given that, you must think that Word of Faith is correct.
(btw, I'm not a stickler, but this thread is for WoF folk, so nobody who thinks WoF is not right, ok?)
Now. What do you base your decision on? There are those in the Christian church out there who think that we are heretics. There are those who think some of us (mostly our leadership) are heretics, but the common believer in the Word/Faith movement hasn't crossed that line. There are some who think that there are brands of Word/Faith that are toxic, but the movement itself as propogated by Kenyon/Hagin is ok.
What makes it right? What decides for you that it is properly teaching what God wants us to know?
Is it purely revelation? Joseph Smith had revelation, a burning in the bosom, a vision. Charles Taze Russel had a revelation. David Koresh supposedly had a revelation.
Is it the written Word? Mormons have extra books to go by, that didn't help. Catholics have extra books tucked in between the Old and New Testament. Jehovah's Witnesses rewrote the Book.
Combination of both? To what degree?
And even within the boundries of the accepted Christian church: Calvinists believe that God sanctifies and has predestined some for salvation (and predestined some for hell), that it is not a choice man freely makes; we believe that you must accept the Lord Jesus as your Savior to be saved. Who's right? How do we know?
How do you come to conclusions on questions like these? Or do you just like to sit back and say "Amen! Hallelujah!" and be done with it?
In His Love
Bob To me, a lot can be learned from children in the area of kowing we are right. Jeus loves me This I know Because the Bible Tells me so! ...it is the same way with WOF. WOf is right This I know Because the Bible Tells me so! 
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