God's word or human reason?

...and it is not plausible that He waited billions of years for evolution to happen.

Ah, so you would be one of those who accepts "microevolution" but denies "macroevolution" (i.e. common descent)?

This line of argument pops up from time to time, what do you think a few billion years matters to an eternal God? How long do you think God was 'waiting' before he began his work of Creation?

Ah, so you would be one of those who accepts "microevolution" but denies "macroevolution" (i.e. common descent)?

That is still quite interesting. Do you believe that the evidence suggests common ancestry, even if you do not believe we were created this way? In other words, do you understand why people would believe in common descent?

I do not accept it as historic fact because the mere existence of an evolution mechanism does not prove that we were really created this way. Even if you don't take Scripture literally, and even if you accept that the many people who wrote it had to work around scientific topics that they could not have understood in 500 BC, Scripture is very clear in that most life forms were directly created and didn't evolve.

Creation by evolution also does not fit to the character of God. He had a very active, determined mind set at that time, and it is not plausible that He waited billions of years for evolution to happen. Direct creation just fits God a lot better. But nevertheless He set up the laws of nature in a way that the universe can continue to exist by itself, and new species can evolve without His intervention.

I think distinctions between microevolution and macroevolution are artificial. The distinction that matters is between evolution as a theory of biology, and a theory of history. Evolution theory can be completely consistent and flawless, just as Newtonian gravity was, and still be wrong in the context of our world or history.

Why a very active, determined mindset "at that time"? Has God's mindset changed since Creation? Is He in a funk because Adam ate the wrong fruit? I can only point out how little "drive" God has had. He left thousands of years between Adam and Abraham. Three generations between Abraham and Jacob, and then thousands of years more between Jacob and David, thousands of years more between David and Jesus, and two thousand and God alone knows how many more years between the First and Second Coming.

God is obviously used to patience. Furthermore God is outside time, and thus how could He "wait"? He sees all things in all time at once. Between His knowledge of what happened 5 million years ago (to us) and what will happen two days from now (to us) no "time" passes for Him; so why should He be considered to "wait" as He watches the effects of events 5 million years ago play out today? No, I think God is bigger than that.

Yes, God's mindset has definitely changed since Creation in many ways, especially in becoming less aggressive and less controlling towards humans. You can see the impressive change of God's character in scripture.

Directly after creation he reacted in massive, extreme ways on human acts. He cursed the whole creation because of one man's disobedience. Then he wiped out almost all life in the flood. Afterwards the first change occurred. He wiped out two cities, but wouldn't have done that if he had found 5 good people in them. He killed the firstborn children of the Egypts, but was forced to for demonstrating his superiority over the Egyptian gods. He grow impatient with Israel and intended to kill all of them, but could be dissuaded from that by Moses. Then His change continued. He interfered less and less in human affairs, and became more and more merciful and forgiving. In the end He was so forgiving that he did not even fulfill the expectation of a physical liberation of the suppressed Jewish people from the Assyrians, the Greeks, and the Romans. In the mindset He had during the exodus, 1500 years before, He would have just wiped out Israel's enemies in an instant.

So I see a definite change of His character, from a very aggressive and fierce warrior God 1500 BC, to a withdrawn, peaceful, and forgiving God, culminating in the sacrifice of His son. He said through His son: "Turn the other cheek" and "My realm is not of this world". This is very different to His behavior 1500 years before. After the resurrection of Christ we have no report anymore of any direct activity by Him in our world.

The later God, yes. But the God described in Genesis, especially Numeri? He did not wait patiently for anything at that time.

This line of argument pops up from time to time, what do you think a few billion years matters to an eternal God? How long do you think God was 'waiting' before he began his work of Creation?

I think one second matters to God when his creatures are in the agony of death.

A few billion years is lots of seconds

Yes, God's mindset has definitely changed since Creation in many ways, especially in becoming less aggressive and less controlling towards humans. You can see the impressive change of God's character in scripture.

Directly after creation he reacted in massive, extreme ways on human acts. He cursed the whole creation because of one man's disobedience. Then he wiped out almost all life in the flood. Afterwards the first change occurred. He wiped out two cities, but wouldn't have done that if he had found 5 good people in them. He killed the firstborn children of the Egypts, but was forced to for demonstrating his superiority over the Egyptian gods. He grow impatient with Israel and intended to kill all of them, but could be dissuaded from that by Moses. Then His change continued. He interfered less and less in human affairs, and became more and more merciful and forgiving. In the end He was so forgiving that he did not even fulfill the expectation of a physical liberation of the suppressed Jewish people from the Assyrians, the Greeks, and the Romans. In the mindset He had during the exodus, 1500 years before, He would have just wiped out Israel's enemies in an instant.

So I see a definite change of His character, from a very aggressive and fierce warrior God 1500 BC, to a withdrawn, peaceful, and forgiving God, culminating in the sacrifice of His son. He said through His son: "Turn the other cheek" and "My realm is not of this world". This is very different to His behavior 1500 years before. After the resurrection of Christ we have no report anymore of any direct activity by Him in our world.


The later God, yes. But the God described in Genesis, especially Numeri? He did not wait patiently for anything at that time.