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15th November 2003, 05:03 AM
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We didn't evolve from a monkey, we evolved from a common ancestor to the monkey. Originally Posted by Data Monkey type ancestor -> ape type ancestor -> the human ape.
Are you saying that the monkey type ancestor isn't a monkey, but some.. proto-monkey?
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15th November 2003, 06:05 AM
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15th November 2003, 07:06 AM
|  | Veteran
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We didn't evolve from a monkey, we evolved from a common ancestor to the monkey.
I realise that, but would that common ancestor be classed as a monkey? |
15th November 2003, 08:19 AM
|  | Prism Ranger
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Reps: 382 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Data I realise that, but would that common ancestor be classed as a monkey?
If you saw it today you would probably say 'that's a monkey', but it isn't a monkey. It looks similar to a monkey but just as far from them as we are.
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15th November 2003, 10:15 AM
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Reps: 207 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Shimmerstar Believing in an invisible guy living in the sky takes a lot more ignorance than believing that we came from monkeys.
So both theists and atheists are ignorant, its just that atheists are less ignorant? Hmmm..I guess as a theistic evolutionist I have the distinction of having a multiple-ignorance disorder. 
Seriously, if you want to use the word 'ignorant', it would be safe to say that YEC's are generally quite ignorant about science just as atheists tend to be quite ignorant about theology. No point in arguing about which camp is more ignorant, right? Such arguments are always easily reversed (and are hardly quantifiable). For example, qualifying religion as a belief that we came from 'an invisible guy in the sky', speaks to a certain level of ignorance as well Shimmerstar. |
15th November 2003, 10:42 AM
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Reps: 30 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Mike Flynn Seriously, if you want to use the word 'ignorant', it would be safe to say that YEC's are generally quite ignorant about science just as atheists tend to be quite ignorant about theology. No point in arguing about which camp is more ignorant, right? Such arguments are always easily reversed (and are hardly quantifiable). For example, qualifying religion as a belief that we came from 'an invisible guy in the sky', speaks to a certain level of ignorance as well Shimmerstar.
Why does it speak of ignorance to be a creationsist? I know people who have studied evolution all their lives and still believe in Creation.
Evolution is a possible mechanism by which we can explain the esitence of all known species. It's a pretty good one, too. It doesn't however disprove creationsism - which would produce the same end result anyway.
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15th November 2003, 11:03 AM
|  | Apatheist Extraordinaire
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Reps: 33,304 (power: 47) | | Originally Posted by WanderingMagi It doesn't however disprove creationsism - which would produce the same end result anyway.
It would produce the same results assuming God put alot of effort into making it look like evolution is true.
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15th November 2003, 11:10 AM
| | Evolution =/= atheism
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Reps: 154 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by WanderingMagi Why does it speak of ignorance to be a creationsist? I know people who have studied evolution all their lives and still believe in Creation.
Evolution is a possible mechanism by which we can explain the esitence of all known species. It's a pretty good one, too. It doesn't however disprove creationsism - which would produce the same end result anyway.
Magi
do they beleive in creation or creationism? TE is creation coupled with evoulution. Some creationism (YEC) has been diproven. There are subtle distinctions. I have met YEC's who didn't know that all these different nuances and terms exixted.
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15th November 2003, 11:11 AM
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Reps: 207 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by WanderingMagi Why does it speak of ignorance to be a creationsist? I know people who have studied evolution all their lives and still believe in Creation.
Yes, but many 'young earth' creationists either choose to ignore obvious data or choose to manufacture speculative and questionable creationist 'science' in order to support a narrow interpretation of scriptures. Further, many of them have rejected any science that is not 'creationist' outright (for religious reasons), and this naturally leads to a degree of ignorance on the subject. Whether they have studied science before is irrelevant. The fact that they selectively discard good science, however, is very relevant. Originally Posted by WanderingMagi Evolution is a possible mechanism by which we can explain the esitence of all known species. It's a pretty good one, too. It doesn't however disprove creationsism - which would produce the same end result anyway.
Magi
Magi, you read my post right? You are preaching to the converted here. I am saying that neither camp should accuse the other of ignorance as an argument.
I am a theistic evolutionist...or more appropriately...I am a Christian who believes that God has worked His wonders of creation through the laws of physics as we have come to know them (and there is still much to learn). I am very well aware of the fact that scientific arguments do not disprove creationism (quite the contrary for me). I have argued the same many times here on this forum.
Its good to see that there are others that are like-minded, however.  |
15th November 2003, 11:12 AM
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Reps: 382 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by WanderingMagi It doesn't however disprove creationsism - which would produce the same end result anyway.
Magi
Correct, it does not disprove Creationism. There are many other thing that do that. I'm sure someone on this forum has a nice cut & paste list of the relevant threads.
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Greatest Hovind quote of all time, as voted for by members of CF:
"Teaching the pagan religion of evolutionism is a waste of valuable class time and textbook space. It is also one of the reasons American kids don't test as well in science as kids in other parts of the world." | | |
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