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Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.

View Poll Results: Are religious people making it harder to believe in God in the twenty first century?
Yes 18 60.00%
No 7 23.33%
Maybe 4 13.33%
Yes especially when they pray in public 2 6.67%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 23rd February 2008, 04:25 PM
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Kiss Believing in God and Evolution

Here is the claim I wonder how many agree with it.

The more religious people claim evolution is not what made the human race, God is what made the human race, the more wrong they look. Meaning as the evidence of fossils and similarity in our DNA with other biological life comes to an astounding 98% similar to a chimpanzee, the more it looks religious people are wrong and in fact there is no God? The more religious people try to claim evolution did not occur in the human race the more it looks like you can't believe in God and evolution at the same time?

In other words in your opinion are the clerics, who can't understand evolution, the pastors who deny evolution yet claim God has revealed to them what is okay, and not okay to believe and still be a believer. Are these people making it harder to believe in God?

To me it looks like religious people are presenting an image that, you can't believe in evolution and believe in God at the same time, there by making it harder for a honest to goodness scientist who loves science, to come anywhere near believing in God?

Personally I believe that people who reject good hard scientific facts, that are accepted as facts among the leading experts in main stream science are fanatical, and are not doing good science. People are rejecting science now because they think their religious beliefes are forcing them to do so. It is like in Florida, everybody wants to be amish and reject science I can't believe what I am seeing, and it is making it real hard to believe in God, when they are so wrong about a proven fact for God's sakes.

So are religious people making it harder to believe in God when you see them reject science?
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Old 23rd February 2008, 04:33 PM
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There are many that believe in God who also support evolution and or the big bang theory...some both as do I...
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Old 23rd February 2008, 05:46 PM
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I voted yes, because this is one of the reasons that I left Christianity. I saw how completely wrong the Creationists were about the science that all of their religion became suspect to me. If they were this mistaken about objective and verifiable science then why I should I trust them about anything else? It didn't help that both sides were saying that you had to believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis to be a "True Christian". Eventually I just wandered off and found a better belief system where I don't have to actually listen to anyone else.
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  #4  
Old 23rd February 2008, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubtingThomas29
Here is the claim I wonder how many agree with it.
The more religious people claim evolution is not what made the human race, God is what made the human race, the more wrong they look. Meaning as the evidence of fossils and similarity in our DNA with other biological life comes to an astounding 98% similar to a chimpanzee, the more it looks religious people are wrong and in fact there is no God?
It isn't the "more religious" people who claim evolution is not what made the human race. it's primarily the fundies.


To me it looks like religious people are presenting an image that, you can't believe in evolution and believe in God at the same time, there by making it harder for a honest to goodness scientist who loves science, to come anywhere near believing in God?
In part it's ploy to make evolution look bad. Fundies have to present such a dichotomy in order to preserve their interpretation of the Bible and their eventual salvation.


Personally I believe that people who reject good hard scientific facts, that are accepted as facts among the leading experts in main stream science are fanatical, and are not doing good science.
They're not, and they don't care that they aren't. You'll sometimes see statements by these people that if science disagrees with their interpretation of the Bible it's science that's wrong. Not them.


So are religious people making it harder to believe in God when you see them reject science?
I don't think so because there are so many alternative approaches to science and religious faith. What these people are doing, however, is making it hard on their children when it comes science education. No child deserves to be steered away from a very successful approach to understanding the mechanics of our world.
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Old 23rd February 2008, 06:12 PM
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Old 24th February 2008, 12:41 AM
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I voted NO, only because there was no EMPHATICALLY NO.

Originally Posted by DoubtingThomas29 View Post
The more religious people claim evolution is not what made the human race, God is what made the human race, the more wrong they look.
We're supposed to look wrong in the eyes of evolution.

Originally Posted by DoubtingThomas29 View Post
Meaning as the evidence of fossils and similarity in our DNA with other biological life comes to an astounding 98% similar to a chimpanzee, the more it looks religious people are wrong and in fact there is no God?
Like I say, I don't care if chimpanzee DNA is 100% like ours, it makes no difference in what I believe.

[bible]Genesis 1:26-27[/bible]

Originally Posted by DoubtingThomas29 View Post
The more religious people try to claim evolution did not occur in the human race the more it looks like you can't believe in God and evolution at the same time?
Actually it should be the other way around. The more you claim evolution did occur, the farther you distance yourselves from those who believe in God and the Creation at the same time. I personally don't trapse around claiming evolution didn't happen; I trapse around claiming creation did happen.

Originally Posted by DoubtingThomas29 View Post
In other words in your opinion are the clerics, who can't understand evolution, the pastors who deny evolution yet claim God has revealed to them what is okay, and not okay to believe and still be a believer. Are these people making it harder to believe in God?
No, they are making the same claims they've been making for thousands of years. Again, it's the evolutionists that have veered off the main trail. We were here first.

Originally Posted by DoubtingThomas29 View Post
To me it looks like religious people are presenting an image that, you can't believe in evolution and believe in God at the same time, there by making it harder for a honest to goodness scientist who loves science, to come anywhere near believing in God?
As it should be.

[bible]James 4:4[/bible]

Originally Posted by DoubtingThomas29 View Post
Personally I believe that people who reject good hard scientific facts, that are accepted as facts among the leading experts in main stream science are fanatical, and are not doing good science.
Guilty as charged.

Originally Posted by DoubtingThomas29 View Post
People are rejecting science now because they think their religious beliefes are forcing them to do so.
Guilty as charged.

Originally Posted by DoubtingThomas29 View Post
It is like in Florida, everybody wants to be amish and reject science I can't believe what I am seeing, and it is making it real hard to believe in God, when they are so wrong about a proven fact for God's sakes.
I'd rather reject science in favor of God, than reject God in favor of science. It's not electricity that I'm worried about; it's fire and brimstone.

Originally Posted by DoubtingThomas29 View Post
So are religious people making it harder to believe in God when you see them reject science?
I doubt it, Thomas.
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Old 24th February 2008, 05:38 AM
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We're supposed to look wrong in the eyes of evolution.


I don't understant what you mean by this. How has a theory of the diversity of species set you up to look wrong? Or have I missed your point?

Like I say, I don't care if chimpanzee DNA is 100% like ours, it makes no difference in what I believe.


I think that's fair enought, as long as you understand those are your beliefs, and they cannot be justified outside of your own faith. I don't think many people would have a problem with people believing what they want, what they have an issue with is those people using those beliefs to tell others they're wrong, if they can't back it up. I'm not a christian, but I'd never go around telling christians that they're wrong to believe in god because I cannot back up my belief.

Actually it should be the other way around. The more you claim evolution did occur, the farther you distance yourselves from those who believe in God and the Creation at the same time. I personally don't trapse around claiming evolution didn't happen; I trapse around claiming creation did happen.


But are the two mutally exclusive? No one can say for certain god did or did not create. We only believe one way or another. But if god did create, surely what we see before us is god's handiwork.

As it should be.


Is it though? We already have one example of someone who lost their faith because they couldn't their christianity in with the evidence they saw in front of them. Isn't someone's faith in christ more important that how they believe god created? If you tell them christianity is only right if god created 6000 years ago and flooded the earth completely, and they cannot accept that because it goes against all the evidence, aren't you risking that they'll turn away from christ altogether?
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Old 24th February 2008, 06:32 AM
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I voted "maybe". I've been noticing lately that there are more Christians who believe in theistic evolution than many atheists think. While I personally don't see how the two are compatible, I must respect the fact that many Christians are keeping themselves open to the explanations that science has to offer. From what I've noticed, people like AV1611VET are becoming a small minority among Christians. I could be mistaken though.
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Old 24th February 2008, 06:55 AM
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I'd say fundamentalism, fanatism and dogmas attract a part of the population, but creates barriers to the rest. For instance, If I hadn't leaved Catholicism long ago, certainly Pope Ratinger would made me leave now.

But we can't generalize. There are people who feel confortable and finds their faith with the "Do and think this" approach.
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Old 25th February 2008, 04:13 AM
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That's the exact reason christian scientists such as Ken Miller oppose creationism. It tries to set up an "us or them" situation that will either destroy religion or destroy science, but humanity needs both.

And, because nobody has mentioned it yet, here are the words of St. Augustine, probably the third most important person in the history of the Christian faith, following just a hair behind Peter and Jesus.

From “The Literal Meaning of Genesis” by St Augustine (A.D. 354-430)
Originally Posted by St Augustine
Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion.
Note the date. This battle has been going on a looooong time.
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