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  #1  
Unread 22nd February 2008, 02:41 PM
The White Hart

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What does "pro-gay-rights" mean?

I saw this "word-phrase" in another question. So, I was wondering what "pro-gay-rights" means exactly. Many people like to join a "rights" bandwagon, but is it actually rights that are being sought?

I don't understand what right a gay person does not have that a straight person does have.

How does a country determine whether or not to offer rights to a person on the basis of whether or not they are attracted to people of the same sex?

Is it actually a search for "rights" or is it additional programs based on their sexual attractions?
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  #2  
Unread 22nd February 2008, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by fated View Post
I saw this "word-phrase" in another question. So, I was wondering what "pro-gay-rights" means exactly. Many people like to join a "rights" bandwagon, but is it actually rights that are being sought?

I don't understand what right a gay person does not have that a straight person does have.

How does a country determine whether or not to offer rights to a person on the basis of whether or not they are attracted to people of the same sex?

Is it actually a search for "rights" or is it additional programs based on their sexual attractions?
I would assume it would mean gays should have the same laws applied to them in employment/marriage/age of consent etc as everyone else, and why should that not be the case is the question i'd ask?
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Unread 22nd February 2008, 02:47 PM
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It's equality, not special rights.

Marriage for example. Marriage comes with certain benefits, certain "rights". If you accept that homosexuals are normal, regular people then you must also accept that the legal rights granted to heterosexual unions should also be extended to homosexual unions. The alternative is that homosexuals are NOT normal, regular people and undeserving of the things heterosexuals take for granted.

I'm sure there is more but that's my understanding.
  #4  
Unread 22nd February 2008, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by stan1980 View Post
I would assume it would mean gays should have the same laws applied to them in employment/marriage/age of consent etc as everyone else, and why should that not be the case is the question i'd ask?
Originally Posted by flicka View Post
It's equality, not special rights.

Marriage for example. Marriage comes with certain benefits, certain "rights". If you accept that homosexuals are normal, regular people then you must also accept that the legal rights granted to heterosexual unions should also be extended to homosexual unions. The alternative is that homosexuals are NOT normal, regular people and undeserving of the things heterosexuals take for granted.

I'm sure there is more but that's my understanding.
Marriage "rights" look like programs geared to those who ordinarily have children. And they are extended to all individual who wish to enter into the type of agreement that ordinarily produces children.

Perhaps we should split these programs away from marriage and offer them to people who have children, which would save money rather than giving more out (social security and other programs..)?
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Last edited by fated; 22nd February 2008 at 03:16 PM.
  #5  
Unread 22nd February 2008, 03:17 PM
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We demand equal protection under the law. (in other words, the police cannot ignore the victim of a gay-bashing just because you assume s/he is gay.)

We demand equality in the workplace. (in other words, you cannot fire somebody just because you assume s/he is gay.)

We demand equality in housing. (in other words, you cannot deny an apartment or a home loan to somebody just because you assume s/he is gay.)

We demand equal access to all the responsibilities and benefits of marriage. (in other words, you cannot deny hospital visitation rights, social security survivor benefits, medical decision making, - - - [the list is over 1,000] - - - just because we are gay.)

We ask only for equality. There is not one single thing that we have asked for that you do not already have yourself.

ETA: The laws of this country are not based upon whether its citizens "ordinarily" have children.
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  #6  
Unread 22nd February 2008, 03:29 PM
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Pro-gay rights. I prefer to think of it as being pro-LGBT rights.

They don't have the same rights as heterosexuals. They don't have the right to get married, gays/lesbians/ bisexuals/transgendered people are discriminated against.

Homosexuality is still not recognized as being normal. Being able to have and adopt children.

It's not about having "special" rights.
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  #7  
Unread 22nd February 2008, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ChaliceThunder View Post
We demand equal protection under the law. (in other words, the police cannot ignore the victim of a gay-bashing just because you assume s/he is gay.)

We demand equality in the workplace. (in other words, you cannot fire somebody just because you assume s/he is gay.)

We demand equality in housing. (in other words, you cannot deny an apartment or a home loan to somebody just because you assume s/he is gay.)

We demand equal access to all the responsibilities and benefits of marriage. (in other words, you cannot deny hospital visitation rights, social security survivor benefits, medical decision making, - - - [the list is over 1,000] - - - just because we are gay.)

We ask only for equality. There is not one single thing that we have asked for that you do not already have yourself.

ETA: The laws of this country are not based upon whether its citizens "ordinarily" have children.
That's fine with me (though I would point out that "gay" people are allowed to get married, they do so all the time). Perhaps we should make "marriage" an institution, that is, a legal agreement that gives another person rights for another person.

It comes with various problems though, because the marriage system as we have it now, appears to be intended to strengthen the union of people who ordinarily have children, which are beneficial to society, especially when raised in a two-parent household.

Allowing more people get at these programs will cost lots of social security money and tax the legal system with regards to divorce.

Perhaps we should make the social security part (and other cash programs) of the law take regard to both if you are married and if you have children.

And make divorces more difficult to get. At least a waiting period if not a justification.

Sound reasonable?
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  #8  
Unread 22nd February 2008, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by fated View Post
Marriage "rights" look like programs geared to those who ordinarily have children. And they are extended to all individual who wish to enter into the type of agreement that ordinarily produces children.

Perhaps we should split these programs away from marriage and offer them to people who have children, which would save money rather than giving more out (social security and other programs..)?
having children or possibility of having children doesn't define marriage. This has been fully refuted about six hundred times on this forum alone.
  #9  
Unread 22nd February 2008, 03:32 PM
The White Hart

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Originally Posted by jamielindas View Post
having children or possibility of having children doesn't define marriage. This has been fully refuted about six hundred times on this forum alone.
Children don't define marriage, but clearly divorce law revolves at least in part on this ordinary result of marriage... Thus post #7.
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  #10  
Unread 22nd February 2008, 03:41 PM
The White Hart

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Why should the government care about sexual orientation with regards to marriage law?

Can the government use obvious reproductive system differences to determine to whom programs can be open to?
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