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16th February 2008, 07:31 PM
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Reps: 172,174,023,564,451 (power: 172,174,023,603) | | I could have found more examples but I didn't feel like looking. 
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"America, we have come so far. We have seen so much. But there is so much more to do. So tonight, let us ask ourselves – if our children should live to see the next century; if my daughters should be so lucky to live as long as Ann Nixon Cooper, what change will they see? What progress will we have made?
This is our chance to answer that call. This is our moment. This is our time – to put our people back to work and open doors of opportunity for our kids; to restore prosperity and promote the cause of peace; to reclaim the American Dream and reaffirm that fundamental truth – that out of many, we are one; that while we breathe, we hope, and where we are met with cynicism, and doubt, and those who tell us that we can’t, we will respond with that timeless creed that sums up the spirit of a people:
Yes We Can. "
President Barack Obama
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16th February 2008, 07:35 PM
|  | He rescued me because He delighted in me (Ps18:19)
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 | | Join Date: 23rd June 2006 Location: North of Kansas City, MO
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Reps: 34,265,055 (power: 34,283) | | Originally Posted by praying  I could have found more examples but I didn't feel like looking.
No you couldn't because no one says that. The only allusions to his being gay are inferences drawn by the reporter, and they are nothing more than are pure speculation. The paper is guilty of sensationalism and yellow journalism.
__________________ Comforting the afflicted; Afflicting the comfortable
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For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh, for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ ... (II Corinthians 10:3-5)
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16th February 2008, 07:38 PM
| | He rescued me because He delighted in me (Ps18:19)
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| | Join Date: 23rd June 2006 Location: North of Kansas City, MO
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Reps: 34,265,055 (power: 34,283) | | Originally Posted by IisJustMe No you couldn't because no one says that. The only allusions to his being gay are inferences drawn by the reporter, and they are nothing more than are pure speculation. The paper is guilty of sensationalism and yellow journalism.
Anyone who concludes from the story that the young man was killed becuase he was Gay is projecting. IMO[/quote]That's my point. The paper makes it look like a hate crime without establishing a factual basis that the victim was, in fact, gay.
__________________ Comforting the afflicted; Afflicting the comfortable
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For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh, for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ ... (II Corinthians 10:3-5)
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16th February 2008, 08:00 PM
| | Snazzy Title Goes Here
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| | Join Date: 9th January 2004 Location: New Jersey
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Reps: 172,174,023,564,451 (power: 172,174,023,603) | | Originally Posted by IisJustMe No you couldn't because no one says that. The only allusions to his being gay are inferences drawn by the reporter, and they are nothing more than are pure speculation. The paper is guilty of sensationalism and yellow journalism.
Errr I meant more examples of that type of thing in journalism, not regarding this specific story. 
__________________
"America, we have come so far. We have seen so much. But there is so much more to do. So tonight, let us ask ourselves – if our children should live to see the next century; if my daughters should be so lucky to live as long as Ann Nixon Cooper, what change will they see? What progress will we have made?
This is our chance to answer that call. This is our moment. This is our time – to put our people back to work and open doors of opportunity for our kids; to restore prosperity and promote the cause of peace; to reclaim the American Dream and reaffirm that fundamental truth – that out of many, we are one; that while we breathe, we hope, and where we are met with cynicism, and doubt, and those who tell us that we can’t, we will respond with that timeless creed that sums up the spirit of a people:
Yes We Can. "
President Barack Obama
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16th February 2008, 08:01 PM
| | Snazzy Title Goes Here
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| | Join Date: 9th January 2004 Location: New Jersey
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Reps: 172,174,023,564,451 (power: 172,174,023,603) | | Originally Posted by IisJustMe Anyone who concludes from the story that the young man was killed becuase he was Gay is projecting. IMO
That's my point. The paper makes it look like a hate crime without establishing a factual basis that the victim was, in fact, gay.
[/quote]
You butchered that quote 
__________________
"America, we have come so far. We have seen so much. But there is so much more to do. So tonight, let us ask ourselves – if our children should live to see the next century; if my daughters should be so lucky to live as long as Ann Nixon Cooper, what change will they see? What progress will we have made?
This is our chance to answer that call. This is our moment. This is our time – to put our people back to work and open doors of opportunity for our kids; to restore prosperity and promote the cause of peace; to reclaim the American Dream and reaffirm that fundamental truth – that out of many, we are one; that while we breathe, we hope, and where we are met with cynicism, and doubt, and those who tell us that we can’t, we will respond with that timeless creed that sums up the spirit of a people:
Yes We Can. "
President Barack Obama
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16th February 2008, 09:54 PM
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Reps: 12,773,578,371,522,452 (power: 12,773,578,371,532) | | Originally Posted by Billnew I don't believe in hate crimes laws. I think laws should be based on actions, not ideas. Punishment should be more severe for reasons like this, but not special laws based on the thinking(or lack there of) of the crimianal.
Murder is murder, hate or love for the person killed doesn't change the result.
While you can choose not to believe in hate crimes laws, it is not true that murder is murder. The law breaks murder down into several different crimes depending on the motive. In this case the person is being charged with first degree murder, that it was premeditated. In this case the charge is because the suspect allegedly focused on the idea to kill the victim -- not on a difference in actions. There is also second degree murder, and various flavors of manslaughter that are used, and may have been appropriate here, depending on what the person was thinking, what his idea was in firing the gun.
The fact is, murder charges are already based on what the person was thinking at the time. Hate crime laws, just like terrorism laws, merely are another penalty added on based on the motive of the person committing the crime.
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You know everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects. -- Will Rogers
The more you read and observe about this Politics thing, you got to admit that each party is worse than the other. The one that's out always looks the best. -- Will Rogers |
16th February 2008, 10:03 PM
| | Veteran
| | Join Date: 20th October 2007
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Reps: 12,773,578,371,522,452 (power: 12,773,578,371,532) | | Originally Posted by IisJustMe No you couldn't because no one says that. The only allusions to his being gay are inferences drawn by the reporter, and they are nothing more than are pure speculation. The paper is guilty of sensationalism and yellow journalism.
Actually, your claim is ringing more and more false. It would appear, based on the facts that have come out since the original article, that the LA Times was correct in what you claim they asserted. Brandon McInerney, the alleged shooter, has been charged with First Degree Murder with a hate-crime enhancement.
It is looking more and more that the LA Times accurately reported what they were told by the students at the school and not sensationalizing.
__________________
You know everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects. -- Will Rogers
The more you read and observe about this Politics thing, you got to admit that each party is worse than the other. The one that's out always looks the best. -- Will Rogers |
16th February 2008, 11:30 PM
|  | Born-again Liberal Episcopalian
63  
| | Join Date: 4th September 2003 Location: USA
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Reps: 252,914,500,256,318,656 (power: 252,914,500,256,337) | | | For the record, for the benefit of anyone who may be misled by ItsJustMe's bloviation on the Los Angeles Times (generally considered one of the top five objective-reporting newspapers in the US, by the way), in other reports on the story, fellow students (several of whom are identified by name) stated that Lawrence King had said he was gay. Also, the Ventura County prosecutor, also identified by name, stated that Brandon McInerney would be charged with murder and use of a firearm in connection with a murder, that hate crime enhancements were being filed, and that he would probably be charged as an adult. Since I read these several hours ago and am on dial-up, I'm not going to go back and re-locate them for cites. As I recall, the Ventura County daily, a follow-up LA Times story, and ABC news were among what I looked at. Anyone with a fast connection willing to chase down cites for the facts I've provided will have my deep appreciation.
__________________ "It is written, 'My house shall be a house of prayer,' but you have made it a den of thieves." -Jesus "You've got to be taught before it's too late / Before you are six or seven or eight / To hate all the people your relatives hate / You've got to be carefully taught." - Oscar Hammerstein II |
16th February 2008, 11:37 PM
| | Born-again Liberal Episcopalian
63
| | Join Date: 4th September 2003 Location: USA
Posts: 10,239
Blessings: 2,246,411
Reps: 252,914,500,256,318,656 (power: 252,914,500,256,337) | | | Oh, also, the family decided to donate organs, and Lawrence's body was taken off life support after the organs were harvested. So he is now dead by anyone's definition.
Whoever it was who asked about "brain dead" -- that is a practicing physician or coroner pronouncing death on the basis that brainwaves have flatlined and damage seems severe enough that there is no chance of recovery. The body can be kept "alive" as a vegetable in that state if there is reason to do so, e.g., if brain death is not from a traumatic injury to the brain and a second opinion is desired; if the deceased or his survivors wished him to be an organ donor; if the deceased was a pregnant woman where there is hope of saving the unborn baby.
__________________ "It is written, 'My house shall be a house of prayer,' but you have made it a den of thieves." -Jesus "You've got to be taught before it's too late / Before you are six or seven or eight / To hate all the people your relatives hate / You've got to be carefully taught." - Oscar Hammerstein II |
16th February 2008, 11:39 PM
|  | My solace my terror, my terror my solace.
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Reps: 27,354,533,772,047,632 (power: 27,354,533,772,065) | | | I still think he should not be charged as an adult. He is 14. He is too immature to drive, to immature to vote, to immature to decide to have sex or marry. But suddenly when he decides to kill someone, he becomes mature. If one is going to stereotype everyone, then they must stereotype everyone, not just the ones they want to. If you want to say all 14 year olds are too immature, then you have to say all 14 year olds are too immature. Letting one 14 year old "off the hook" is one of the prices of stereotyping.
I guess my biggest issue with this is it seems the law applies the position of one being a minor when it wants to. Also though, a 14 year old in todays world is not fully set in a mental path. It isn't until 19-21 where the brain really formalizes into some thought pattern which is concrete.
__________________ Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you"
That is BEFORE, not WHEN.
Life starts before conception. Supporting a woman's right to choose to not fertilize an egg, giving her the ability to choose to let a life die, is pro-choice, not pro-life.
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