Oxnard student declared brain dead

Sarcasm is one thing. Inappropriate statements directed towards a person who's been murdered is another.

Poe's law strikes again.

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I do not agree with the designation "hate crime". Actions are crimes not thoughts.
As has been stated here before no one can see inside my thoughts and understand fully my motives for anything. They can only view the outcome and judge that. gg

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Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;" John 11:25

Not really. One can base it of actions aswell. Did Person X hit Person Y soley becuase he was Gay? If yes then its a hate crime. However if X hit Y for any other reason(such as lets say Y being an azz) then it wouldnt be a hate crime even if Y was gay/black/asian/white/muslim/christian/alien and so on.

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God before country, others and self is the credo of suicide bombers.


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But I don't agree with that line of thinking. Did Person X hit Person Y what was the outcome period. That is what is judge-able

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Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;" John 11:25

Thanks. Yeah, I could have dug through my browser history and found those stories, but on dial-up each can take as much as five minutes to load and be linkable. Not fun, and I'm grateful for the assistance.

ItsJustMe, I don't blame you for decrying sensationalism, but you were going on the basis of one story which omitted identities that happened to be specified elsewhere. When I see a reasonably reliable journalistic source saying "authorities" I presume this means officials with a right to make official statements; "fellow students" presumably means reporters talked to classmates, some of whom might not want to be identified, and are quoting them. As for death, "brain dead" means legally dead -- that person doesn't occupy the body any more, regardless of whether life support is keeping its heart beating and its lungs functioning for the moment (as in this case where the family was deciding whether to donate organs). The LA Times article I read said "brain dead" without explaining it, but that told me enough to know the kid's dead. And I do apologize for not citing sources -- when I read the other articles, I had no idea that on dear old CF somebody was challenging the veracity of the LA Times for not spelling out Maeve Fox's name and title and not identifying by name the classmates of Lawrence and Brandon whom the reporter had talked to.

Me, I think it's a terrible tragedy. One boy is dead for the "horrible crime" of being gay and wearing makeup and jewelry; another boy will spend his teen and adult years a criminal for having acted on the idea that it's all right to kill that which is different and which you don't understand. And I wonder where he might have gotten that idea?

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Suppose it was self-defense? Suppose it was an accident? Should the sentence for these scenarios be the same?

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"WHEREAS, Healthcare Decisions Day is designed to raise public awareness of the need to plan ahead for healthcare decisions, related to end of life care and medical decision-making whenever patients are unable to speak for themselves and to encourage the specific use of advance directives to communicate these important healthcare decisions."

Alaska Statue 13.52, signed by Governor Sarah Palin

"...my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care."

-Facebook page of Sarah Palin, August 2009

I'm not a big fan of hate crime legislation. It's an extremely subjective area. I understand that the implications of a crime can be perceived as a threat to a wider community, but how do you determine that?
Something as blatant as burning a cross is a clear signifier.
But if a skinhead gets into a bar fight and kills a black man, is that a hate crime? How do you decide?
I feel kind of the same way about terrorist legislation. If a crime has been committed, why do you need to make it an extra crime.
It's a hard area.

In this case, I don't know the details. I do feel a level of empathy for all involved. Maybe the shooter is an amoral bigoted psychopath. Maybe he's just a messed up kid. If you're going to have a system where you arbitrarily decide who gets tried as an adult and who doesn't, why have a system at all?

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From childhoods hour I have not been
as others were. I have not seen
as others saw. I could not bring
my passions from a common spring.
From the same source I have not taken
my sorrow. I could not awaken
my heart to joy at the same tone.
All I loved, I loved alone. Edgar Allen Poe

Intent does count for a lot. Maybe "hate crimes" would be more understandable if they were called "group intimidation crimes -- that is, the essence of a hate crime is to commit a crime on someone on the basis of a "suspect classification" with the intent of striking fear into the hearts of others of that classification. Burning a cross on a black family's lawn is simple trespass and probably setting an unregulated unlicensed fire -- but the intent is to cause black people to live in fear of the KKK. Beating up and robbing a man coming out of a gay club is done, typically, not only for the proceeds of the robbery but to send a message to gay people that they cannot be openly gay and safe. (Notice that the suspect classifications are race and sexual orientation, not "being black" or "being gay" -- an assault by a black street gang for the offense of being white on their turf is equally a hate crime, as would have been Jerry Falwell's famous lie about having been attacked by a mob of gay people if he'd been telling the truth.

My own classic "intent matters" story, however, is intensely personal; it happened to me. On April 13, 1990, a man a foot taller and nearly 100 pounds heavier than me stuck a knife in my chest, broke several ribs and my sternum (breastbone), while his accomplices subdued me and knocked me out. He and they took over $10,000 from me.

And I'm very grateful. You see, he was my heart surgeon. I'm alive today because of the surgery he performed.

Intent matters.

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Recently, one of Puerto Rico's ex-governors was out eating and drinking one night with friends. Late in the night, the ex governor got into a discussion with a Cuban friend on weather George Bush is a coward and an idiot. The conversation got heated and the ex-governor grabbed the Cuban's hands and stood up to push him. The Cuban got a hand free and punched him in the face. The Cuban broke the ex-governor's nose and glasses, cuting his eye and bone. (I call it a fight between two old drunks.) He wants to make hitting someone with glasses a hate crime.



So, is punching someone with glasses in the face a hate crime?

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