| News & Current Events The forum to discuss things that are happening in the world today. |
 | | 
17th February 2008, 02:35 PM
| | Regular Member
  
| | Join Date: 11th January 2007
Posts: 179
Blessings: 63,072
Reps: 775 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by horuhe00  You obviously don't understand sarcasm.
Reporting my post is sooo gay.
Sarcasm is one thing. Inappropriate statements directed towards a person who's been murdered is another. |
17th February 2008, 02:47 PM
|  | Contributor
30  
 | | Join Date: 29th April 2004 Location: Guaynabo, Puerto Rico
Posts: 5,194
Blessings: 124,711
Reps: 66,151 (power: 79) | | Originally Posted by Beccs Sarcasm is one thing. Inappropriate statements directed towards a person who's been murdered is another.
Poe's law strikes again.
__________________ This forum's name is still Christian Forums. "There is no more terrible sight than ignorance in action." - Wolfgang, Goethe, Johann Bush: "We're in trouble if this Avian Flu mutates." Anti-Evolution Base: "Mutates?! You mean, like, evolves?!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
17th February 2008, 02:54 PM
|  | Contributor
    
| | Join Date: 26th July 2006 Location: British Columbia
Posts: 12,639
Blessings: 28,276,983 My Mood 
Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,794) | | | I do not agree with the designation "hate crime". Actions are crimes not thoughts.
As has been stated here before no one can see inside my thoughts and understand fully my motives for anything. They can only view the outcome and judge that. gg
__________________ Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;" John 11:25 "On days when life is difficult and I feel overwhelmed, as I do fairly often, it helps to remember in my prayers that all God requires of me is to trust Him and be His friend. I find I can do that." - Bruce Larson “No man’s life improves with age alone, but only as He moves closer to eternity knowing the God of eternity.” JC July 13, 2007 |
17th February 2008, 02:57 PM
|  | Homo Sapiens Invictus
27   
| | Join Date: 1st March 2007 Location: Karlskrona("Carlscrown")
Posts: 832
Blessings: 2,025,911 My Mood 
Reps: 10,259,086,111,766,592 (power: 10,259,086,111,771) | | | Not really. One can base it of actions aswell. Did Person X hit Person Y soley becuase he was Gay? If yes then its a hate crime. However if X hit Y for any other reason(such as lets say Y being an azz) then it wouldnt be a hate crime even if Y was gay/black/asian/white/muslim/christian/alien and so on.
__________________
Being good for the sake of being good far triumphs over being good in fear of eternal punishment.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
17th February 2008, 03:00 PM
| | Contributor
| | Join Date: 26th July 2006 Location: British Columbia
Posts: 12,639
Blessings: 28,276,983 My Mood
Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,794) | | | But I don't agree with that line of thinking. Did Person X hit Person Y what was the outcome period. That is what is judge-able
__________________ Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;" John 11:25 "On days when life is difficult and I feel overwhelmed, as I do fairly often, it helps to remember in my prayers that all God requires of me is to trust Him and be His friend. I find I can do that." - Bruce Larson “No man’s life improves with age alone, but only as He moves closer to eternity knowing the God of eternity.” JC July 13, 2007 |
17th February 2008, 03:30 PM
|  | Born-again Liberal Episcopalian
63    
| | Join Date: 4th September 2003 Location: USA
Posts: 10,239
Blessings: 2,246,411
Reps: 252,914,500,256,318,656 (power: 252,914,500,256,337) | | Originally Posted by Maren I saw most of the same stories that Polycarp did, and he explained he was on a slow connection so I can't blame him for not wanting to go back and find them. So, to help him out, here are four separate news accounts (all different news sources): LA Times ABC (based on AP report) UPI Ventura County Star
Senior Deputy District Attorney Maeve Fox
And just to "blow [you] out of the water", some of the children quoted are in news articles are: Erin Mings; Jeremiah, who didn't want to give his last name; Michael Sweeney; Matthew Puga; and Emmanuel Martinez. This is, of course, those who were willing to give their name (and I would suspect parental approval would be required before quoting the child), several appear to have requested to remain anonymous. And again, you are ignoring that the earlier news articles, which didn't always list the names of children, have been shown to be accurate.
Thanks. Yeah, I could have dug through my browser history and found those stories, but on dial-up each can take as much as five minutes to load and be linkable. Not fun, and I'm grateful for the assistance.
ItsJustMe, I don't blame you for decrying sensationalism, but you were going on the basis of one story which omitted identities that happened to be specified elsewhere. When I see a reasonably reliable journalistic source saying "authorities" I presume this means officials with a right to make official statements; "fellow students" presumably means reporters talked to classmates, some of whom might not want to be identified, and are quoting them. As for death, "brain dead" means legally dead -- that person doesn't occupy the body any more, regardless of whether life support is keeping its heart beating and its lungs functioning for the moment (as in this case where the family was deciding whether to donate organs). The LA Times article I read said "brain dead" without explaining it, but that told me enough to know the kid's dead. And I do apologize for not citing sources -- when I read the other articles, I had no idea that on dear old CF somebody was challenging the veracity of the LA Times for not spelling out Maeve Fox's name and title and not identifying by name the classmates of Lawrence and Brandon whom the reporter had talked to.
Me, I think it's a terrible tragedy. One boy is dead for the "horrible crime" of being gay and wearing makeup and jewelry; another boy will spend his teen and adult years a criminal for having acted on the idea that it's all right to kill that which is different and which you don't understand. And I wonder where he might have gotten that idea?
__________________ "It is written, 'My house shall be a house of prayer,' but you have made it a den of thieves." -Jesus "You've got to be taught before it's too late / Before you are six or seven or eight / To hate all the people your relatives hate / You've got to be carefully taught." - Oscar Hammerstein II |
17th February 2008, 03:48 PM
| | Senior Veteran
| | Join Date: 6th May 2006
Posts: 5,218
Blessings: 3,057,149
Reps: 66,723,153,951,639,616 (power: 66,723,153,951,650) | | Originally Posted by gratefulgrace But I don't agree with that line of thinking. Did Person X hit Person Y what was the outcome period. That is what is judge-able
Suppose it was self-defense? Suppose it was an accident? Should the sentence for these scenarios be the same?
__________________
"God-deniers are not delightful souls! Go where you will throughout the world, when you find them you will not want to abide with them, and it would be difficult for God Himself to brook them." - Dr. William Bell Riley, Atheism is the Enemy of Civilization - 1917
"Yes, you are outsiders. Go start your own damn country. This one was started by Christians, you puerile dimwits." - Mary Kochan, You Whiny Sniveling Little Atheists Are Pathetic! - 2011
Such eloquence. |
17th February 2008, 04:44 PM
|  | Senior Veteran
32 
| | Join Date: 21st April 2004 Location: Hamilton
Posts: 3,494
Blessings: 1,053,320
Reps: 41,553,286,422,749,040 (power: 41,553,286,422,760) | | | I'm not a big fan of hate crime legislation. It's an extremely subjective area. I understand that the implications of a crime can be perceived as a threat to a wider community, but how do you determine that?
Something as blatant as burning a cross is a clear signifier.
But if a skinhead gets into a bar fight and kills a black man, is that a hate crime? How do you decide?
I feel kind of the same way about terrorist legislation. If a crime has been committed, why do you need to make it an extra crime.
It's a hard area.
In this case, I don't know the details. I do feel a level of empathy for all involved. Maybe the shooter is an amoral bigoted psychopath. Maybe he's just a messed up kid. If you're going to have a system where you arbitrarily decide who gets tried as an adult and who doesn't, why have a system at all?
__________________
From childhoods hour I have not been
as others were. I have not seen
as others saw. I could not bring
my passions from a common spring.
From the same source I have not taken
my sorrow. I could not awaken
my heart to joy at the same tone.
All I loved, I loved alone. Edgar Allen Poe |
17th February 2008, 05:39 PM
| | Born-again Liberal Episcopalian
63
| | Join Date: 4th September 2003 Location: USA
Posts: 10,239
Blessings: 2,246,411
Reps: 252,914,500,256,318,656 (power: 252,914,500,256,337) | | Originally Posted by JGG Suppose it was self-defense? Suppose it was an accident? Should the sentence for these scenarios be the same?
Intent does count for a lot. Maybe "hate crimes" would be more understandable if they were called "group intimidation crimes -- that is, the essence of a hate crime is to commit a crime on someone on the basis of a "suspect classification" with the intent of striking fear into the hearts of others of that classification. Burning a cross on a black family's lawn is simple trespass and probably setting an unregulated unlicensed fire -- but the intent is to cause black people to live in fear of the KKK. Beating up and robbing a man coming out of a gay club is done, typically, not only for the proceeds of the robbery but to send a message to gay people that they cannot be openly gay and safe. (Notice that the suspect classifications are race and sexual orientation, not "being black" or "being gay" -- an assault by a black street gang for the offense of being white on their turf is equally a hate crime, as would have been Jerry Falwell's famous lie about having been attacked by a mob of gay people if he'd been telling the truth.
My own classic "intent matters" story, however, is intensely personal; it happened to me. On April 13, 1990, a man a foot taller and nearly 100 pounds heavier than me stuck a knife in my chest, broke several ribs and my sternum (breastbone), while his accomplices subdued me and knocked me out. He and they took over $10,000 from me.
And I'm very grateful. You see, he was my heart surgeon. I'm alive today because of the surgery he performed.
Intent matters.
__________________ "It is written, 'My house shall be a house of prayer,' but you have made it a den of thieves." -Jesus "You've got to be taught before it's too late / Before you are six or seven or eight / To hate all the people your relatives hate / You've got to be carefully taught." - Oscar Hammerstein II |
17th February 2008, 05:51 PM
| | Contributor
30
| | Join Date: 29th April 2004 Location: Guaynabo, Puerto Rico
Posts: 5,194
Blessings: 124,711
Reps: 66,151 (power: 79) | | Recently, one of Puerto Rico's ex-governors was out eating and drinking one night with friends. Late in the night, the ex governor got into a discussion with a Cuban friend on weather George Bush is a coward and an idiot. The conversation got heated and the ex-governor grabbed the Cuban's hands and stood up to push him. The Cuban got a hand free and punched him in the face. The Cuban broke the ex-governor's nose and glasses, cuting his eye and bone. (I call it a fight between two old drunks.) He wants to make hitting someone with glasses a hate crime.
So, is punching someone with glasses in the face a hate crime?
__________________ This forum's name is still Christian Forums. "There is no more terrible sight than ignorance in action." - Wolfgang, Goethe, Johann Bush: "We're in trouble if this Avian Flu mutates." Anti-Evolution Base: "Mutates?! You mean, like, evolves?!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
| | |
| Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode |
| | |
