| Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too. |
 | | 
7th February 2008, 10:47 PM
| | Member
23   
| | Join Date: 15th January 2008
Posts: 219
Blessings: 73,240
Reps: 79,700,827,809,033 (power: 79,700,827,814) | | | *My* nihilo challenge (av style)
Ok, so I want to feel special in life. So I lie and say I created an apple in my hand out of nothing. There were no people around when I claimed I did it.
Please respond with at LEAST 1 way that you could prove beyond any reasonable doubt that I *didn't* create the apple. And that I am not in fact God.
If you can not prove that I didn't do it, then me creating an apple out of nothing, is no less true than God, or Jesus. The only difference is that I am here to speak thus if you can't prove that I didn't then
Me > Jesus
You obviously want to prove me wrong, after all - I am proclaiming myself greater then your savior. So prove me wrong, And I will worship him. Prove that I didn't just create an apple nihilo style. |
7th February 2008, 11:08 PM
|  | SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
57     
 | | Join Date: 18th June 2006 Location: United States
Posts: 2,126,161
Blessings: 2,934,947,602 My Mood 
Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,856,908) | | Originally Posted by Parogar  Prove that I didn't just create an apple nihilo style.
Sure --- I'll just show you the amount of mass/energy in the universe today, as compared to yesterday. If the amount is the same - you couldn't possibly have created an apple ex nihilo.
__________________ GOD SAID IT -- THAT SETTLES IT
|
7th February 2008, 11:53 PM
| | Member
23
| | Join Date: 15th January 2008
Posts: 219
Blessings: 73,240
Reps: 79,700,827,809,033 (power: 79,700,827,814) | | Originally Posted by AV1611VET Sure --- I'll just show you the amount of mass/energy in the universe today, as compared to yesterday. If the amount is the same - you couldn't possibly have created an apple ex nihilo.
You can do that? And that still wouldn't prove that my apple didn't come from anything. |
8th February 2008, 12:06 AM
| | Regular Member
28   
| | Join Date: 22nd January 2008 Location: Brisneyland
Posts: 147
Blessings: 90,536
Reps: 537 (power: 0) | | | I would point to the apple tree behind you and say "why, you just picked up an apple from the ground and pretended that you created it."
Failing that, I would pat you on the back and say "congratulations God, I knew you would show your worth to humanity sooner or later...can I eat that now?" |
8th February 2008, 12:21 AM
|  | Senior Member
| | Join Date: 6th November 2006
Posts: 1,525
Blessings: 63,922
Reps: 1,559,258,407,616 (power: 1,559,258,414) | | Originally Posted by AV1611VET Sure --- I'll just show you the amount of mass/energy in the universe today, as compared to yesterday. If the amount is the same - you couldn't possibly have created an apple ex nihilo.
and how would you shot this?
and it just so happens that he decided to take out the exact same amount of mass and energy out of the universe so your idea fails. |
8th February 2008, 01:01 AM
| | Member
23
| | Join Date: 15th January 2008
Posts: 219
Blessings: 73,240
Reps: 79,700,827,809,033 (power: 79,700,827,814) | | Originally Posted by ranmaonehalf and how would you shot this?
and it just so happens that he decided to take out the exact same amount of mass and energy out of the universe so your idea fails.
exactly |
8th February 2008, 01:08 AM
| | SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
57
| | Join Date: 18th June 2006 Location: United States
Posts: 2,126,161
Blessings: 2,934,947,602 My Mood
Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,856,908) | | Originally Posted by Parogar You can do that? And that still wouldn't prove that my apple didn't come from anything. Originally Posted by talkingmonkey I would point to the apple tree behind you and say "why, you just picked up an apple from the ground and pretended that you created it."
Failing that, I would pat you on the back and say "congratulations God, I knew you would show your worth to humanity sooner or later...can I eat that now?" Originally Posted by ranmaonehalf and how would you shot this?
and it just so happens that he decided to take out the exact same amount of mass and energy out of the universe so your idea fails. Originally Posted by Parogar exactly
Do you guys know what ex nihilo creation is?
__________________ GOD SAID IT -- THAT SETTLES IT
|
8th February 2008, 02:04 AM
|  | Thief in the Night
25    
| | Join Date: 30th August 2003 Location: New York
Posts: 6,386
Blessings: 9,342
Reps: 29,807,908,674,769,116 (power: 29,807,908,674,784) | | | For once I have to agree with AV. I don't think Parogar knows what the concept of ex nihilo is.
__________________
Bushido216 |
8th February 2008, 03:23 AM
|  | Senior Member
42 
| | Join Date: 5th November 2007 Location: Oregon
Posts: 571
Blessings: 108,792
Reps: 22,377 (power: 27) | | Originally Posted by Bushido216 For once I have to agree with AV. I don't think Parogar knows what the concept of ex nihilo is.
Maybe you could clarify?
Why could you not also claim the simultaneous destruction of an equal amount of mass/energy somewhere else? |
8th February 2008, 03:34 AM
| | Thief in the Night
25
| | Join Date: 30th August 2003 Location: New York
Posts: 6,386
Blessings: 9,342
Reps: 29,807,908,674,769,116 (power: 29,807,908,674,784) | | Originally Posted by BrainHertz Maybe you could clarify?
Why could you not also claim the simultaneous destruction of an equal amount of mass/energy somewhere else?
1. From his usage Parogar isn't really understanding the concept of ex nihilo. I'd point out that the fellow who posited the removal of an equal amount of energy and mass occuring simultaneously to the creation of the apple ex nihilo is not Parogar, who has a few times shown himself to be nothing more than an angry kid with a stick up his butt about creationism.
2. I suppose you could. The problem is that one could claim any number of things. I could counter-point with producing video and audio surveillance of Parogar plucking the apple from a tree, and he could counter with a Laughing-man like response that he altered our perceptions (and recorded versions) of reality without us knowing it.
What I find most disturbing is that he's using Last Tuesdayism to defeat Last Tuesdayism, which if he succeeds would only validate Last Tuesdayism, which would invalidate the point.
Infact, I'm even willing to bet that Parogar doesn't really understand much of what is being said in this thread, such as AV's point about comparing mass quantities or the rebuttal by ramma.
__________________
Bushido216 | | |
| Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode |
| | |
