*My* nihilo challenge (av style)

Ok, so I want to feel special in life. So I lie and say I created an apple in my hand out of nothing. There were no people around when I claimed I did it.

Please respond with at LEAST 1 way that you could prove beyond any reasonable doubt that I *didn't* create the apple. And that I am not in fact God.

If you can not prove that I didn't do it, then me creating an apple out of nothing, is no less true than God, or Jesus. The only difference is that I am here to speak thus if you can't prove that I didn't then

Me > Jesus

You obviously want to prove me wrong, after all - I am proclaiming myself greater then your savior. So prove me wrong, And I will worship him. Prove that I didn't just create an apple nihilo style.

Originally Posted by Parogar

Prove that I didn't just create an apple nihilo style.

Sure --- I'll just show you the amount of mass/energy in the universe today, as compared to yesterday. If the amount is the same - you couldn't possibly have created an apple ex nihilo.

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You can do that? And that still wouldn't prove that my apple didn't come from anything.

I would point to the apple tree behind you and say "why, you just picked up an apple from the ground and pretended that you created it."

Failing that, I would pat you on the back and say "congratulations God, I knew you would show your worth to humanity sooner or later...can I eat that now?"

and how would you shot this?

and it just so happens that he decided to take out the exact same amount of mass and energy out of the universe so your idea fails.

exactly

Originally Posted by Parogar

You can do that? And that still wouldn't prove that my apple didn't come from anything.

Originally Posted by talkingmonkey

I would point to the apple tree behind you and say "why, you just picked up an apple from the ground and pretended that you created it."

Failing that, I would pat you on the back and say "congratulations God, I knew you would show your worth to humanity sooner or later...can I eat that now?"

Originally Posted by ranmaonehalf

and how would you shot this?

and it just so happens that he decided to take out the exact same amount of mass and energy out of the universe so your idea fails.

Originally Posted by Parogar

exactly

Do you guys know what ex nihilo creation is?

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For once I have to agree with AV. I don't think Parogar knows what the concept of ex nihilo is.

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Maybe you could clarify?

Why could you not also claim the simultaneous destruction of an equal amount of mass/energy somewhere else?

1. From his usage Parogar isn't really understanding the concept of ex nihilo. I'd point out that the fellow who posited the removal of an equal amount of energy and mass occuring simultaneously to the creation of the apple ex nihilo is not Parogar, who has a few times shown himself to be nothing more than an angry kid with a stick up his butt about creationism.

2. I suppose you could. The problem is that one could claim any number of things. I could counter-point with producing video and audio surveillance of Parogar plucking the apple from a tree, and he could counter with a Laughing-man like response that he altered our perceptions (and recorded versions) of reality without us knowing it.

What I find most disturbing is that he's using Last Tuesdayism to defeat Last Tuesdayism, which if he succeeds would only validate Last Tuesdayism, which would invalidate the point.

Infact, I'm even willing to bet that Parogar doesn't really understand much of what is being said in this thread, such as AV's point about comparing mass quantities or the rebuttal by ramma.

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