Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
Also geologist Kurt Wise, because he is at least honest enough to admit his particular beliefs don't jive with the geological evidence in the Earth.
I thought he claimed they did, but that even if they didn't he'd still believe the literal Bible version. More honest than most, that's for sure.
__________________ "Sadly, biblical literalism brings not only the bible but Christianity itself into disrepute." - The Rt. Revd. Richard Harries, Anglican Bishop of Oxford.
You've mostly ignored what people have posted in favor of repeating your diatribe from the OP ad nauseum. Repetition does not win arguments.
Unfortunately many posters make comments (that were addressed in my OP) that ignore my OP. If they have found fault with my OP, they should demonstrate these faults before proceeding.
Originally Posted by Pete Harcoff
You have all the hallmarks of an Internet troll and hence you are labelled as such.
Please be specific. What are the hallmarks of a troll? and what specific things have I done to exhibit these 'hallmarks'? When you have finished the ad hominem, perhaps you can point to some flaws in my arguments against evolution.
Originally Posted by Pete Harcoff
Furthermore, cross-posting the exact same posts in multiple forums qualifies as spam in my books.
You have my permission to ignore this thread.
Originally Posted by Pete Harcoff
TrueCreation. I'm seen him actively engaging in discussions about topics that most YECs favor to ignore.
Such as?
Originally Posted by Pete Harcoff
Also geologist Kurt Wise, because he is at least honest enough to admit his particular beliefs don't jive with the geological evidence in the Earth.
Please cite where Dr. Wise has admitted 'his particular beliefs don't jive with the geological evidence in the Earth'.
Ever seen a human with purple eyes? Green hair? Six fingers? There's a good reason for that.
actually I have seen people with six fingers. And I don't mean people with a little stumpy one either. there was a guy on TV with six fully functional fingers. Sadly this didn't help him play the piano.
nevertheless your point is pointless. we take on the attributes of out ancestors, with modification. if there was no advantage to having a different number of digits to our ancestors and we had a different number, then a variation in the offspring of this type would probably not be incorporated into the gene pool at large. you see yo uare forgetting about natural selection
__________________ MSci MSc ARCS DIC PhD..... yes, I am bragging.
Please cite where Dr. Wise has admitted 'his particular beliefs don't jive with the geological evidence in the Earth'.
"Six Days: Why 50 Scientists Choose to Believe in Creation." In his concluding paragraph he relates the following remarkable admission:
"I am a young-age creationist because that is my understanding of the Scripture. As I shared with my professors years ago when I was in college, if all the evidence in the universe turns against creationism, I would still be a creationist because that is what the Word of God seems to indicate. Here I must stand."
there are better ones.
__________________ MSci MSc ARCS DIC PhD..... yes, I am bragging.
Unfortunately many posters make comments (that were addressed in my OP) that ignore my OP. If they have found fault with my OP, they should demonstrate these faults before proceeding.
Well, your entire post rested on the idea that evolution = atheism. Since this is demonstrably false (as evidenced by the number of Christians, including many on this forum, who accept evolutionary theory), your post was invalidated long ago.
Please be specific. What are the hallmarks of a troll? and what specific things have I done to exhibit these 'hallmarks'? When you have finished the ad hominem, perhaps you can point to some flaws in my arguments against evolution.
1) You posted an obviously inflammatory post regarding evolution which contained a major glaring fault.
2) You engaged in argumentum ad nauseam.
3) You've ignored a number of legititimate responses and questions regarding your post in favor of #2.
Such as?
Look up TrueCreation in the member logs and get a listing of his posts.
Please cite where Dr. Wise has admitted 'his particular beliefs don't jive with the geological evidence in the Earth'.
Admittedly this is a quote from a person who emailed Dr. Wise, not from Wise directly. But since Wise basically contradicted what the person was trying to prove, I don't have much reason to doubt them. You could always email Dr. Wise yourself, if you wanted to.
__________________ Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution
Evolution is an elaborate fairy tale propigated by atheists. They are hell bent on explaining away their Creator as if they could only disbelieve hard enough maybe they could make reality go away. (Sadly, some Christians have been cowed by the hype.)
in what way does evolution help to explain away the creator?
Visit any forum and it doesnt take long to see atheists patting themselves on their backs for their superior rationality but resorting to argument ad hominem and changing the subject rather than confront the evidence.
this is of course, an ad hominem in itself.
Ostensibly this is an arguement about science, and atheists like to think all scientists believe in evolution. Science can only suggest possiblilities -- it can never give a reliable conclusion about origins. The question of origins is a question of history.
no, but we can tell you how history looks. it is like pathology. Did you know that there are experts in police departments whose expertise is in blood spatter? they do nothing else... but when a murder happens and there is blood, they call these people in. I remember a fascinating case where a woman who murdered her children did an extremely good job of covering up what she had done. she had everyone fooled until this guy (ok, and some other evidence which corroborated wth it and showed she was lying) turned up and uncovered that her whole tale was a lie, just because of the way the blood had splattered on the floor. you see nature only does things in certain ways, it follows laws. if you see something, you can work out how it got there from the evidence it leaves. evolution is like this.
Christians have evidence to trump all human speculation about origins. We have an inerrant account from our Creator.
yes, the universe itself. God made it don't you know? The universe is as close as we will ever get to a literal, unblemished word of God.
All Truth leads to God and therefore all good science will lead to God.
and all good interpretations of the bible will lead to God. This is undoubtedly the case, so we have three things to correlate.
__________________ MSci MSc ARCS DIC PhD..... yes, I am bragging.
"Six Days: Why 50 Scientists Choose to Believe in Creation." In his concluding paragraph he relates the following remarkable admission:
"I am a young-age creationist because that is my understanding of the Scripture. As I shared with my professors years ago when I was in college, if all the evidence in the universe turns against creationism, I would still be a creationist because that is what the Word of God seems to indicate. Here I must stand."
Please note Cantuar's astute observation in post #71. Dr. Wise has expressed allegiance to scripture, and is confident that scienece will confirm Christian doctrine.
All the more interesting, then, to read his personal testimony in In Six Days. It is actually quite moving, in a pathetic kind of way. He begins with his childhood ambition. Where other boys wanted to be astronauts or firemen, the young Kurt touchingly dreamed of getting a Ph.D. from Harvard and teaching science at a major university. He achieved the first part of his goal, but became increasingly uneasy as his scientific learning conflicted with his religious faith. When he could bear the strain no longer, he clinched the matter with a Bible and a pair of scissors. He went right through from Genesis 1 to Revelations 22, literally cutting out every verse that would have to go if the scientific worldview were true. At the end of this exercise, there was so little left of his Bible that
. . . try as I might, and even with the benefit of intact margins throughout the pages of Scripture, I found it impossible to pick up the Bible without it being rent in two. I had to make a decision between evolution and Scripture. Either the Scripture was true and evolution was wrong or evolution was true and I must toss out the Bible. . . . It was there that night that I accepted the Word of God and rejected all that would ever counter it, including evolution. With that, in great sorrow, I tossed into the fire all my dreams and hopes in science.
in what way does evolution help to explain away the creator?
All we can say about such beliefs is, firstly, that they are superfluous and, secondly, that they assume the existence of the main thing we want to explain, namely, organized complexity. ~ Richard Dawkins
It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. ~ Richard Lewontin
What theistic evolutionists have failed above all to comprehend is that the conflict is not over “facts” but over ways of thinking... The specific answers they derive may or may not be reconcilable with theism, but the manner of thinking is profoundly atheistic. To accept the answers as indubitably true is inevitably to accept the thinking that generated those answers. That is why I think the appropriate term for the accommodationist position is not “theistic evolution,” but rather theistic naturalism. Under either name, it is a disastrous error. ~ Phillip Johnson
It was obvious that both the general theory of evolution and its extension to man in particular must meet from the first with the most determined resistance on the part of the Churches. Both were in flagrant contradiction to the Mosaic story of creation, and other Biblical dogmas that were involved in it, and are still taught in our elementary schools. It is creditable to the shrewdness of the theologians and their associates, the metaphysicians, that they at once rejected Darwinism, and made a particularly energetic resistance in their writings to its chief consequence, the descent of man from ape. ~ Ernst Haeckel
Evolution is the greatest engine of atheism ever invented. ~ William Provine
Originally Posted by Jet Black
no, but we can tell you how history looks. it is like pathology. Did you know that there are experts in police departments whose expertise is in blood spatter? evolution is like this.
Blood spatter experts invoke the scientific method by causing blood spatter and then observing the effects. These observations are then compared with blood spatters that the expert did not personally witness. Please explain how this is connected to evolution.
Originally Posted by Jet Black
yes, the universe itself. God made it don't you know? The universe is as close as we will ever get to a literal, unblemished word of God.
Please elaborate how 'the universe is closer to a literal, unblemished word of God' than the Bible aka The Word of God.
Originally Posted by Jet Black
and all good interpretations of the bible will lead to God. This is undoubtedly the case, so we have three things to correlate.
Please explain why your interpretation is better than mine.
bevets, to repeat a question I already asked: Have you read any books on evolutionary theory, including ones by some of the people you quote?
Yes or no will suffice.
__________________ Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution
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