Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
I am not aware of any Creationist that would discourage investigation of the physical data (and that is as far as Ruse goes with his illustration).
Did you miss where he called it a terrific theory? That's going further than just talking about investigation of the physical data.
Everyone agrees that mutations occur (evolutists pretend this ends the argument) What has not been demonstrated is that these naturally occuring mutations can add up to major anatomical variations that are beneficial.
It's been demonstrated that they can. It hasn't been demonstrated in real time that they've caused major transitions, simply because real time for such a process is too long. Given the old age of the earth, the pattern of the fossil record, the evidence from genetics and phylogenetics, and the lack of any genetic barrier between transitions (as would be required for the creationist scenario), the explanation involving evolution is supported at every level and the explanation onvolving young-earth creationism is refuted.
As I have alluded to in my opening parable: evolutionists claim to be billionaires (goo to you) but have pennies to show for it (the rare cases are small and legitemately disputed) They will never show a natural transition between reptile and bird. It is impossible.
They already have shown a reptile-bird transition that's conclusive to everybody who doesn't have nonscientific reasons for rejecting every piece of evidence. Since such people aren't motivated by science, scientific evidence is irrelevant to them.
__________________ "Sadly, biblical literalism brings not only the bible but Christianity itself into disrepute." - The Rt. Revd. Richard Harries, Anglican Bishop of Oxford.
Bevets, since you seem to like quotes Michael Ruse so much, here is another quote for you to chew on:
So, what does our history tell us? Three things. First, if the claim is that all contemporary evolutionism is merely an excuse to promote moral and societal norms, this is simply false. Today's professional evolutionism is no more a secular religion than is industrial chemistry. Second, there is indeed a thriving area of more popular evolutionism, where evolution is used to underpin claims about the nature of the universe, the meaning of it all for us humans, and the way we should behave. I am not saying that this area is all bad or that it should be stamped out. I am all in favor of saving the rainforests. I am saying that this popular evolutionism--often an alternative to religion--exists. Third, we who cherish science should be careful to distinguish when we are doing science and when we are extrapolating from it, particularly when we are teaching our students. If it is science that is to be taught, then teach science and nothing more. Leave the other discussions for a more appropriate time. - Michael Ruse, Science 299 (March 2003), 1523 - 1524
It is clear he makes the distinction between evolution as a science and turning that science into a philosophy of sorts (which I already admitted can happen, but I think doing so is foolish).
However, if you somehow think that just because something can be twisted into a philosophy or even a "religion", that that automatically makes the science of evolution a religion, then I think you need to pay closer attention to the writings of those you so freely quote.
__________________ Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution
Last edited by Pete Harcoff; 8th December 2003 at 12:50 PM.
I feel very sad to realise that people in a supposedly civilised country believe this nonsense.Why believe a false creation out of what is essentialy an inordinately popular storybook when there is good science behind the truth. well anyway at least natural selection should weed out those who are as deluded as you. By the way how many of you have a degree from a reputable uniersity in a science subject?
I feel very sad to realise that people in a supposedly civilised country believe this nonsense.Why believe a false creation out of what is essentialy an inordinately popular storybook when there is good science behind the truth. well anyway at least natural selection should weed out those who are as deluded as you. By the way how many of you have a degree from a reputable uniersity in a science subject?
Bizarrely enough, I still have no idea which side you're on.
Who's to say that the geocentric model isn't accurate?
Oh yeah.. unbelievers. And "Christians" who don't seek and hunger after the Truth. These same "Christians" who believe that God didn't create the world in 6 days like He said He did.. When are "Christians" going to start believing God's Word? I tell you, it is true. No matter what "man" says. Let God be true and every man a liar. God laughs at man's "knowledge"..
.. keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
Hmmm....seems like there are many people in here who are not Christians. Sure there are some Christians who believe in evolution...but it seems like most in these forums just say they are Christians....but they really aren't. Being a Christian is more than believing that there is a God-even the devil believes there is a God...but that doesn't mean he believes that God should be in control!
__________________ ~Any questions? Just send me a PM. I'd be happy to reply To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To man belong the plans of the heart, but from the LORD comes the reply of the tongue. All a man's ways seem innocent to him, but motives are weighed by the LORD. Commit to the LORD whatever you do, and your plans will succeed.The LORD works out everything for his own ends—even the wicked for a day of disaster. Prov 16
Linear Mode
