Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
Simply the part about you calling yourself an "evolutionist" at one time. Anyone who knows anything about evolution would not turn around and label it a religion. The only people who do so are ignorant creationists who only do so to try to get it removed from schools on the same grounds that bar creationism from being taught. It's purely a political con-job, and has no reflection on the real science being researched and taught.
My personal take on your testimony is that you effectively knew nothing about the theory of evolution, read some creationist sites, then declared yourself converted.
__________________ Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution
You're quoting Fred Hoyle, not Francis Crick. There is a difference, you know.
Here are some great quotes from Dr. Crick:
An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going. Life Itself (1981) p.88
Every time I write a paper on the origin of life, I determine I will never write another one, because there is too much speculation running after too few facts. Life Itself (1981) p.153
I have no doubt, as will emerge later, that this loss of faith in Christian religion and my growing attachment to science plays a dominant part in my scientific career, not so much on a day-to-day basis but in the choice of what I have considered interesting and important. What Mad Pursuit (1988) p.11
Biologists must constantly keep in mind that what they see was not designed, but rather evolved. It might be thought, therefore, that evolutionary arguments would play a large part in guiding biological research, but this is far from the case. It is difficult enough to study what is happening now. To figure out exactly what happened in evolution is even more difficult. Thus evolutionary achievements can be used as hints to suggest possible lines of research, but it is highly dangerous to trust them too much. What Mad Pursuit (1988) pp.138-139
Originally Posted by Pete Harcoff
The part I disagree with of his testimony was of labeling himself an "evolutionist". No one who knows anything about evolution (or science for that matter) would label it a "religion".
Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion — a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality. I am an ardent evolutionist and an ex-Christian, but I must admit that in this one complaint — and Mr. Gish is but one of many to make it — the literalists are absolutely right. Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today. ~ Michael Ruse
Originally Posted by Pete Harcoff
Simply the part about you calling yourself an "evolutionist" at one time. Anyone who knows anything about evolution would not turn around and label it a religion.
Evolution was really my religion, a faith commitment and a complete world-and-life view that organized everything else for me, and I got quite emotional when evolution was challenged. ~ Gary Parker http://www.creationists.org/switch.html
Congrats, you have opinions. Now if only you had facts to back up the opinion that evolution is a religion. After all, I could say that christians worship vampires, doesn't make it anymore true than if someone says evolution is a religion. Its the facts and evidence that count.
Unless opinions are just as valid as facts, if so, you now worship vampires, congradulations.
Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion — a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality. I am an ardent evolutionist and an ex-Christian, but I must admit that in this one complaint — and Mr. Gish is but one of many to make it — the literalists are absolutely right. Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today. ~ Michael Ruse
To be blunt, Michael Ruse is wrong. Evolution does not speak of meaning, nor does it replace God. If evolution is promoted as an ideology or a religion, then that is the fault of those promoting it, not the science itself. Evolution is simply a process which creates biological change in populations of organisms.
Evolution was really my religion, a faith commitment and a complete world-and-life view that organized everything else for me, and I got quite emotional when evolution was challenged. ~ Gary Parker http://www.creationists.org/switch.html
Well sure, evolution can be made a religion, but the same is true of anything that is incorporated into a particular worldview. But as I said, evolution is merely a process of biological change. It's merely science, no matter what a couple of people think.
If some choose to treat it as a religion, then they are welcome to it, but I would wager they do so at their own detriment.
__________________ Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution
Last edited by Pete Harcoff; 7th December 2003 at 02:22 AM.
Those, as usual for your "quotes," are misquotes. Just like all those "quotes" by Richard Dawkins which appeared to say something different from what he was really saying.
As far as the Ruse quote, did you miss this part of it which came a bit later?
"Darwinism is a terrific theory that stimulates research in every area of the life sciences. In the human realm, for instance, discoveries in Africa trace our immediate past in ever greater detail, while at the same time the Human Genome Project opens up fascinating evolutionary questions as we learn of the molecular similarities between ourselves and organisms as apparently different as fruit flies and earthworms. Surely this is enough. There is no need to make a religion of evolution. On its own merits, evolution as science is just that -- good, tough, forward-looking science, which should be taught as a matter of course to all children, regardless of creed."
He's simply saying what the science-friendly posters here keep saying and what poor old Lucaspa says about ten times a day - not that any of the creationists are paying attention - which is that the extension of evolution beyond the parameters of science should not be done, and he's criticising the people doing it. He isn't saying that Darwinian evolution is a religion rather than a science, he's having a go at the people who try and make it into a worldview.
Is that really too subtle for you to comprehend?
__________________ "Sadly, biblical literalism brings not only the bible but Christianity itself into disrepute." - The Rt. Revd. Richard Harries, Anglican Bishop of Oxford.
1. Simply the part about you calling yourself an "evolutionist" at one time.
2. Anyone who knows anything about evolution would not turn around and label it a religion.
3. The only people who do so are ignorant creationists who only do so to try to get it removed from schools on the same grounds that bar creationism from being taught.
4. It's purely a political con-job, and has no reflection on the real science being researched and taught.
5. My personal take on your testimony is that you effectively knew nothing about the theory of evolution, read some creationist sites, then declared yourself converted.
1. I believed in evolution. That made me an evolutionist.
2. The evolution hypothesis is full of assumption and assertion. It is a belief system with no facts, so it is essentially a religion. You should see how some of the fundamental evolutionists behave when their claims are investigated.
3. Nice ad hom.
4. Actually, evolution is purely a con job. Fortunately I took the time to research the facts.
5. Wrong again. I don't bother with creationist sites. I think most of them (the YEC ones) are wrong. I read a few of them years ago and contacted some of them because I think they are making honest mistakes. None of them replied, which was disappointing, so I dropped it.
__________________ Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
- Jesus -
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Last edited by JunkYardFrog; 7th December 2003 at 02:20 PM.
1. I believed in evolution. That made me an evolutionist.
no, beleifs are for religions. I do not beleive in evolution any more than I beleive in gravity. I see evidence and support of a theory.
Originally Posted by JunkYardFrog
2. The evolution hypothesis is full of assumption and assertion. It is a belief system with no facts, so it is essentially a religion. You should see how some of the fundamental evolutionists behave when their claims are investigated.
Please, tell us which evidences for evolution are in dispute and we can discuss them.
3. Nice ad hom.
Can you say that that tactic is not being used? Nice distraction
Originally Posted by JunkYardFrog
4. Actually, evolution is purely a con job. Fortunately I took the time to research the facts.
Then please share the problems with evolution. I would discredit evolutionary theory in a sec if you can provide sufficient evidence against it. Let us see what your research and facts are.
Originally Posted by JunkYardFrog
5. Wrong again. I don't bother with creationist sites. I think most of them (the YEC ones) are wrong. I read a few of them years ago and contacted some of them because I think they are making honest mistakes. None of them replied, which was disappointing, so I dropped it.
Then again, what are your claims against evolution if not Creationist?
__________________ Jesus said, "If a blind person leads a blind person, both of them will fall into a hole." Thomas 34
"On blind faith they place reliance, what they need more of is science"- MC Hawking
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