Origins TheologyForum for the discussion of Creation Science (Young/Old) vs Theistic Evolution. Discussion of Atheistic Evolution should be taken to the Discussion and Debate forums.
The Second Law of Entropy requires a closed system for it to hold true. The Earth is not a closed system. Thus, it does not apply. If there were no sun it is undenyable that evolution would not occur. Happy?
It would not occur because life would not have begun.
__________________ "Ach, stick it up yer trakkans!"
I must also express some amusement that when a Creationist points out a flaw in evolution, it is laughed off, and argued that the Creationist just doesn't understand that those flaws have already been refuted. I contest that the "refutations" are nothing more than more notional specualtions drawn up to cover some serious issues with the evolutionary fundamentals. The greater population of the planet holds to evolution (supposedly) therefore the Creationists MUST be wrong, no matter the evidence.
If you are laughed at it's usually because you've just built a strawman of evolution and knocked it down, not the real thing.
The flaws HAVE been refuted and evolution has been attacked for falsification by evolutionary scientists and it is still standing for over 100 years. Of course, with your MSc you should know science works by falsification.
Since evolutionists control the science journals, textbooks, and programming....well?
Yes, and the government are allowing aliens to abduct American people in exchange for advanced alien technology so they can further their evil evolutionist agenda. :rolleyes:
Also do not think that by isolating TE from mainstream secular evolution, while sharing almost all of their doctrines, is a good thing. Almost all evolutionists HATE God. That is why they hold to evolution so tightly, because the alternative (creation) is unthinkable.
Do you have any evidence at all that evolutionists hate God?
If the enemies of God can get rid of God then they can do as they please. This is what kids are being taught today.
"Think of the children!!"
Do not tell me YEC is "damaging" to the faith. No sir, quite the contrary.
If you read some of the threads in the Apologetics forum you will see a lot of people have left Christianity due to being unable to accept a literal Genesis based on scientific evidence, and since they had it beat into them "Genesis is literal in order to be a Christian" the end up leaving.
__________________ "Ach, stick it up yer trakkans!"
The Second Law of Entropy requires a closed system for it to hold true. The Earth is not a closed system. Thus, it does not apply. If there were no sun it is undenyable that evolution would not occur. Happy?
The universe is a closed system, and there is no such law as the "second law of entropy". It is the second law of thermodynamics, which is called 'entropy'.
Vance, your assumptions that I get my science from YEC sites is getting old. I have yet to source anything other than the Bible, which folks here conveniently pass of as "interpretive".
Yes, and the government are allowing aliens to abduct American people in exchange for advanced alien technology so they can further their evil evolutionist agenda.
Do you have any evidence at all that evolutionists hate God?
"Think of the children!!"
If you read some of the threads in the Apologetics forum you will see a lot of people have left Christianity due to being unable to accept a literal Genesis based on scientific evidence, and since they had it beat into them "Genesis is literal in order to be a Christian" the end up leaving.
wblastyn, your mocking tone here (aliens, the children) demonstrates your lack of concern for the fact that biblical truth is being expunged by evolutionary propagnada that does not seek answers fitting with Biblical truth, solid empirical facts, or anything other than massive, overblown theories upon which some really good science is buried in this sea of prejudice and bias.
You guys have your heads buried in this stuff and will not look up long enough to see what I'm trying patiently to illustrate.
Not all science here is conclusive, despite the claims of those (whose articles you must eagerly collect) scientists who spin it to be otherwise.
If people leave the faith over their inability to "prove" Genesis...that is the saddest thing I've heard in awhile. Faith is defined in Hebrews as:
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
This argument is about God and the validity of His word.
Which mechanism that is used to form the theory of evolution directly contradicts the Laws of thermodynamics. Please be specific.
All of the mechanisms used in the descriptive theory of evolution have been observed to occur (Heritable mutation and natural selection).
A theory in itself cannot violate a law of physics, only the physical mechanism that make up the theory can. Which of the mechanisms of evolution violate a law and why? Again, please be specific and discuss actual physical mechanisms that are used in the theory of evolution.
wblastyn, your mocking tone here (aliens, the children) demonstrates your lack of concern for the fact that biblical truth is being expunged by evolutionary propagnada that does not seek answers fitting with Biblical truth, solid empirical facts, or anything other than massive, overblown theories upon which some really good science is buried in this sea of prejudice and bias.
Sorry, I don't go for conspiracy theories, that's why i mentioned the aliens.
Why do you think we accept evolution? What is evolution?
You guys have your heads buried in this stuff and will not look up long enough to see what I'm trying patiently to illustrate.
What is our motive for burying our heads in the sand? What can we achieve by accepting evolution due to all the evidence when we secretly know it is false?
I know why you cling to Creationism, because you tie it to Christianity itself, so if creationism is wrong then Christianity crumbles. Well done, you side with the atheistis.
Not all science here is conclusive, despite the claims of those (whose articles you must eagerly collect) scientists who spin it to be otherwise.
If people leave the faith over their inability to "prove" Genesis...that is the saddest thing I've heard in awhile. Faith is defined in Hebrews as:
People leave because they actually look at the evidence and see that evolution is true, and since they have tied their faith to literal Genesis and after seeing Genesis cannot be literal they leave.
Can you tell me what evolution is?
__________________ "Ach, stick it up yer trakkans!"
The universe is a closed system, and there is no such law as the "second law of entropy". It is the second law of thermodynamics, which is called 'entropy'.
Vance, your assumptions that I get my science from YEC sites is getting old. I have yet to source anything other than the Bible, which folks here conveniently pass of as "interpretive".
If the 2LoT did effect evolution in the way you claim then it would also effect a lot of other things too. How would an embryo develope into a baby?
__________________ "Ach, stick it up yer trakkans!"
Buck, you raised the concept of entropy a few times on this forum with a tone of certainty that it argued against evolution. In fact, you went so far as to say that evolutionists didn't have an answer to it. I have shown you that not only do they have an answer, the leading YEC organization agrees with them on this point!
Are you now willing to concede that entropy and the second law of thermodynamics do not argue against evolution? If not, what is your response to the Christians I have quoted who say it does not argue against evolution?
You can't raise the issue and then when it is opposed, simply say that "science is not as conclusive as it seems" or "you guys are just too caught up in this science stuff".
Since evolution *is* science stuff, we need to look at the scientific arguments for and against.
EDIT:
Also, I apologize if you got your concept that entropy and the second law argues against evolution from some source other than a Creationist source. I assume, though, that you did not come up with this idea on your own, and I have never heard anyone EXCEPT Creationists use this argument (even though most are now abandoning it). If your source was non-Creationist, I would be very interested in knowing it, since it would be very useful to know of a non-Creationist who believes it.
Last edited by Vance; 4th November 2003 at 05:54 PM.
The universe is a closed system, and there is no such law as the "second law of entropy". It is the second law of thermodynamics, which is called 'entropy'.
Vance, your assumptions that I get my science from YEC sites is getting old. I have yet to source anything other than the Bible, which folks here conveniently pass of as "interpretive".
So you jump on a little mistake, and make an even bigger one. The UNIVERSE is not under discussion. The earth is. In case you're wondering the Sun is increasing in entropy at a pace that far outstrips a few puny decreases on earth. Therefore the Earth-Sun system is net-entropy increasing (If nothing could decrease entropy then Hydrogen wouldn't burn, since the 2H2+O2->H2O decreases entropy).
Linear Mode
