Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
There will be no single level layer to identify as the base or first for the flood as it was a chaotic sdestructive catastrophe which errupted allover the earth. to think it was uniform event is silly. look at all the signs of catastrophe upon & under the earth.
well we can say it is above all the trace fossils right, since there is no way that those kinds of fossils, such as nests and footprints and so on could have survived "chaotic destructive catastrophe which errupted allover the earth"
__________________ MSci MSc ARCS DIC PhD..... yes, I am bragging.
I can give a refutation to almost all those arguements, but then you will give most likely an equall refutation. I do this so much in another forum like this. It is just one dumb endless cycle.
I don't think you can give a refutation. I haven't found one.
I have seen the hatered of GOD, it dwells within the closed hearted of the open minded.
Where have you seen any "hatred of God" here?
I do wish to know; what are the 5 hypothesiss of the Big Bang?
In no particular order they are:
1. No Boundary. In this one the universe is finite but unbounded and there is no creation. The universe simply IS.
2. Logical and mathematical necessity. The equations that describe the universe are so powerful that they made a universe for them to describe.
3. God
4. Quantum fluctuation. In this one the universe -- matter/energy/spacetime are an uncaused quantum fluctuation. One big virtual particle if you will. There is no net energy in the universe and String Theory says that spacetime itself can be a quantum fluctuation.
5. Ekpyrotic. A variation of QF above. In this one there are two 11 dimension quantum membranes, Our 4 D universe results from a collision of these two 'branes. When the branes collide again our universe will be wiped out and a new one begun. This can happen infinitely. You don't actually get a Big Bang as in a point singularity, but rather a Big Splat. This one can be tested eventually because the gravity waves generated by the Splat will be different from gravity waves generated by the BB.
This is a classic case of multiple competing hypotheses with insufficient data to choose between them. None have been eliminated.
__________________ "If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault." Christian Observer, 1832, pg. 437
"Christians should look on evolution simply as the method by which God works." Rev. James McCosh, theologian and President of Princeton, 1890
Hi my name is DaQo'tah"Chance" at work,,and yet the Believer so no sign of Chance at all,,,and yet both views are correct.
harmony!
This is a red herring. Evolution is contingent but not chance. That is, natural selection is the opposite of chance -- pure determinism. The variations available to natural selection are also not chance per se, since they do have causes. But they are contingent in that particular variations do not have to be present and the necessary variations are not guaranteed to appear.
Do you follow?
To be a Christian and accept science isn't a matter of juggling chance, but accepting what Butler says:
"The only distinct meaning of the word 'natural' is stated, fixed, or settled; since what is natural as much requires and presupposes an intelligent agent to render it so, i.e., to effect it continually or at stated times, as what is supernatural or miraculous does to effect it for once." Butler: Analogy of Revealed Religion.
Do you understand?
__________________ "If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault." Christian Observer, 1832, pg. 437
"Christians should look on evolution simply as the method by which God works." Rev. James McCosh, theologian and President of Princeton, 1890
4. Quantum fluctuation. In this one the universe -- matter/energy/spacetime are an uncaused quantum fluctuation. One big virtual particle if you will. There is no net energy in the universe and String Theory says that spacetime itself can be a quantum fluctuation.
I have a question... Is there a negative form of space time? Like an antispacetime or something? How, and where, would this stuff exist?
I have seen the hatered of GOD, it dwells within the closed hearted of the open minded.
So the open-minded hate God? It never ceased to amaze me that when someone disagrees with another, then it opens the door to harsh judgements like these. Thankfully, the God of the Bible makes it clear that He does not judge by such measures. What's your excuse?
I don't think you can give a refutation. I haven't found one.
Where have you seen any "hatred of God" here?
In no particular order they are:
1. No Boundary. In this one the universe is finite but unbounded and there is no creation. The universe simply IS.
2. Logical and mathematical necessity. The equations that describe the universe are so powerful that they made a universe for them to describe.
3. God
4. Quantum fluctuation. In this one the universe -- matter/energy/spacetime are an uncaused quantum fluctuation. One big virtual particle if you will. There is no net energy in the universe and String Theory says that spacetime itself can be a quantum fluctuation.
5. Ekpyrotic. A variation of QF above. In this one there are two 11 dimension quantum membranes, Our 4 D universe results from a collision of these two 'branes. When the branes collide again our universe will be wiped out and a new one begun. This can happen infinitely. You don't actually get a Big Bang as in a point singularity, but rather a Big Splat. This one can be tested eventually because the gravity waves generated by the Splat will be different from gravity waves generated by the BB.
This is a classic case of multiple competing hypotheses with insufficient data to choose between them. None have been eliminated.
Not just insufficient data...insufficient mathematical tools and computational power to solve the equations of M-theory.
In fact, there are other formulations of the BB as well...all of them break down under certain conditions. We may never know the precise cause of the expansion...a bitter pill for theoretical physicists.
Sadly, without a theory of quantum gravity (not to mention a lack of measurable data), these kinds of questions will remain enigmatic for some time.
Not just insufficient data...insufficient mathematical tools and computational power to solve the equations of M-theory.
But it's insufficient data that matters. Even when the equations of M-theory are solved, that doesn't mean they reflect reality until we can test them.
In fact, there are other formulations of the BB as well...all of them break down under certain conditions.
This isn't about formulations of the BB. This is about what caused the BB.
We may never know the precise cause of the expansion...a bitter pill for theoretical physicists.
Again, this isn't the issue. We are not concerned with the cause of the expansion of the universe, but why there is a universe at all. Expanding or not.
"Even if there is only one possible unified theory, it is just a set of rules and equations. What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe? The usual approach of science of constructing a mathematical model cannot answer the questions of why there should be a universe for the model to describe. Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? " Stephen Hawking, A Brief History of Time, pg 174.
Sadly, without a theory of quantum gravity (not to mention a lack of measurable data), these kinds of questions will remain enigmatic for some time.
Even with quantum gravity, the question remains unanswered. Quantum gravity will unify physics so we don't have two major but separate theories to describe the universe: relativity and QM. But it won't tell us the cause of the BB.
__________________ "If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault." Christian Observer, 1832, pg. 437
"Christians should look on evolution simply as the method by which God works." Rev. James McCosh, theologian and President of Princeton, 1890
I have a question... Is there a negative form of space time? Like an antispacetime or something? How, and where, would this stuff exist?
I haven't heard anything about that. The theories state that antimatter also froze out of energy as the universe cooled. It annihilated ordinary matter and the energy of that annihilation is now the COMB. There was a slight imbalance between matter and anti-matter -- one part in a billion -- and it is that extra excess of matter that forms the matter in the universe.
__________________ "If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault." Christian Observer, 1832, pg. 437
"Christians should look on evolution simply as the method by which God works." Rev. James McCosh, theologian and President of Princeton, 1890
Linear Mode
