Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
If you’ve read my OP in its entirety, I think you’ll know that this problem involves more than just rudeness.
And if you read the post that you just quoted, you'd know i agree.
You're not going to agree with every atheist on this forum. Nor are they right in everything they say, you shouldn't expect them to be. And they're stubborn bastards. So is everyone else. This is old news.
The rudeness comes at the expense of the logical quality of the arguments being used, so the way it appears to creationists here is that the people here aren’t able to support evolution without relying on these sorts of fallacies. RichardT has already told me he feels this way.
and that's what this is all about, isn't it? Good luck with RichardT. Maybe you can be the "Good Cop", or you could just re-enforce the persecution complex.
...
and RichardT, in case you're reading this:
Go to your creationist only forum, and stay there. Be the admin, and Boot anyone who disagrees with you. Surround yourself entirely and without exception with creationists. They will spout arguments that you already know are false, don't correct them--inundate yourself in ignorance, because that's what happens when you lock the world out.
You're not going to agree with every atheist on this forum. Nor are they right in everything they say, you shouldn't expect them to be. And they're stubborn bastards. So is everyone else. This is old news.
To the extent that this is currently the case, it’s only been “old news” for the amount of time that you’ve been a member. The forum first started getting this way around the time you joined. For someone like me who’s been a member for four years, though, this is still a relatively new trend.
Originally Posted by Nathan45
and that's what this is all about, isn't it? Good luck with RichardT. Maybe you can be the "Good Cop", or you could just re-enforce the persecution complex.
...
and RichardT, in case you're reading this:
Go to your creationist only forum, and stay there. Be the admin, and Boot anyone who disagrees with you. Surround yourself entirely and without exception with creationists. They will spout arguments that you already know are false, don't correct them--inundate yourself in ignorance, because that's what happens when you lock the world out.
I’ve tried being the “good cop” with him for around a year, and that doesn’t seem to do any good. I talk to him on AIM sometimes, though, so what I’m probably going to do is invite him to either the OT section of CF, or one of the other forums where I post.
Since you seem relatively open-minded about this problem, I’d like to point out something else about Richard that I’ve mentioned before, but that you probably haven’t noticed: before you joined CF, he came closer to accepting evolution than any other creationist I’ve known online or offline, apart from those who went through this stage briefly on the way to becoming theistic evolutionists. Everyone here could tell when this was happening to him, and when he referred to himself a creationist during this time, other members would sometimes comment about how they doubted he’d be one for much longer. He made the same thing even clearer to me while we were discussing it privately.
I consider Richard to be the best illustration of how the conduct here nowadays runs contrary to this board’s purpose. He’s told me several times that what he wants here more than anything else is to have the flaws in his beliefs politely pointed out, and for most creationists who are willing to learn, this is enough for them to accept evolution eventually. But lately Richard gets replied to with mockery at least as often as with what would actually help change his mind, and the mockery just convinces him that the other creationists he talks to are right when they tell him that most supporters of evolution are unable to provide anything more than this.
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To the extent that this is currently the case, it’s only been “old news” for the amount of time that you’ve been a member. The forum first started getting this way around the time you joined. For someone like me who’s been a member for four years, though, this is still a relatively new trend.
I'm not sure, but didn't the moderation get somewhat more lax around then? I've heard horror stories about mods banning people left and right before i joined.
It might have more to do with the reduced moderation than anything else. Eitherway, people in general need to get some thicker skin.
I could be wrong but I think it's more likely he just craves the attention.
No, it definitely isn’t that. Part of the way his uncertainty about this affected him early last year was that he left the forum for around a month. He and I were still discussing it on AIM, though, so most of what I know about how he felt during that time was from what he told me there.
If he was faking everything he told me on AIM about how he felt, he’d have to be one of the best actors I’ve ever known.
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No, it definitely isn’t that. Part of the way his uncertainty about this affected him early last year was that he left the forum for around a month. He and I were still discussing it on AIM, though, so most of what I know about how he felt during that time was from what he told me there.
If he was faking everything he told me on AIM about how he felt, he’d have to be one of the best actors I’ve ever known.
erm, i'm not suggesting he's faking anything. I'm just suggesting he likes the attention.
erm, i'm not suggesting he's faking anything. I'm just suggesting he likes the attention.
How would that have gone, then? If he wasn’t faking the fact that he was questioning whether creationism is true, how could wanting attention have caused that?
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Just now stumbling late into the thread, but I honestly do my best to answer any serious question seriously and with respect.
However, when I spend some serious time putting together a well structures, polite, educational post, with information from reputable sources, that is intended to answer the person's question, I must admit, it gets pretty frustrating when the true colours come out, and the creationist refuses to acknowledge your evidence, plays silly semantic word games, or plain comes out with utter weapons grade balonium... one that happened to me the other day...
Creationist "Shouldn't there be transitional fossils if evolution is correct"
me "big post citing several examples of transitional forms and what experts say about them, with pictures"
creationist "Well what does Jesus say about them"
me "Jesus isn't really relevant to this"
Creationist "Jesus is ALWAYS relevant, if you don't believe that, I'm not listening to you anymore"
who cares, anyway, i'm not a mind reader. that's just the impression i get.
but even though i could be wrong, here's how I see people: Everyone has a mental idea of themselves in their head. And in any situation, they do whatever they think they'd do in the situation. Changing someone's sense of self is hard and usually doesn't survive a night's sleep anyway.
To be honest, sometimes I go to sleep thinking myself a christian, but I wake up in the morning and forget it all, because that's not who I am. Probably the primary reason is that i'm extremely uncomfortable in person around people who are openly religious and absolutely could not picture myself ever doing it. So no matter how much i like the philosophy or the theology i don't think it was meant to be.
... Anyways, my 2c: You don't hang around a creation/evolution forum for years and still be on the "fence" still. I don't think it actually works like that.
RichardT is clearly a fundamentalist. That's how he sees himself. He also tries to be openminded and intellectual, and i don't doubt that he is seriously contemplating these things in his head, he certainly is. But at the end of the day, he's still a fundamentalist, how could he be anything different? Is he now going to go to his parents/friends and start justifying a slimy non-literal interpretation of the bible? Wouldn't that feel totally unnatural, and completely out of character? And how would that even go down, "Hey, Guys, i'm an evolutionist now!!!1!11!" ... So as for any doubts, it goes to the back of the mind ... soon any doubts will be a vague memory, clubbed to oblivion by various pratts that he's forgotten the refutation for. And the next day it starts over again.
Maybe you can be the "Good Cop", or you could just re-enforce the persecution complex. 
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