Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
You forgot terminal cancer and whole hosts of neurological disorders. But why stop there? With a little research, I'm sure you can do better than that parasite example Halruaa.
I'm guessing you are not speaking from personal experience here Halruaa. Instead, you strike me as a kind of 'litigator' for all the people who have ever suffered in the world. You probably figure you have an *air tight* case against God with your arguments, yes?
Terminal cancer is indeed painful, however most people with terminal cancer are under so much medication during the last remaining weeks they dont know what's going on. My uncle passed away after a 6 month fight with liver cancer, during the last two months he didnt know what was going on. Granted it was terrible to watch, he most likely didnt feel any pain or had any idea what was going on.
You're right, im not speaking from personal experience. And no I dont have an 'air tight' case against god, I dont need to present a case against something I dont believe in!
Of course, If all you are is your physical body, then you are right, there is nothing good in suffering....and none of these arguments will ever sway you (how could they?) But if thats true then there is no God anyway, so who are you going to blame? Just have fun while you can in your pointless, finite existence. One thing is certain: pain and death will one day find you too Halruaa. But *if* there is a God, when that day comes you just might lose the only thing you have that really matters.
Yes, you are right. All I am is a physical body, however good can come from suffering. It can make people more open to others when it comes to suffering. I personally have a connective tissue disorder, that will leave me with a lifelong chain of heart problems in the future, and because of this I feel im a better person. I know that im not as lucky as others, and I treat people with the respect they deserve. However, this disability also makes me more harsh towards those who abuse their bodies (like drug users..). I get really angry when I see drug users abuse themselves, because they dont know what its like to not live normally. They take their health for granted, and I feel they don't deserve it. Pain has already found me, and i've accepted the fact that when im in my thirties i'll have terrible heart and lung problems. I accept death, its one of the only two definite things in life. The other being taxes..heh. Im not worried when I die, because I know there is no god, just like you know there is a god.
Either way you are left without a case Halruaa, if God exists then He is justified by redeeming the souls of those who suffer...if He doesn't then you are wasting your breath with your arguments.
BTW, If you want to see it for yourself, volunteer for palliative care or help take care of those who *really* suffer. Time and again I have seen people turn to God just when things are worst. An act of desparation? Or an act of *clarity*? Maybe it doesn't compel everyone...but thats because faith is a free choice.
How do you explain people who suffer more than others? There are people who go through life with no medical problems, live to be 80 and die happy. Then you have people like me, who will suffer much physical pain, and will experience countless health problems in the future. Im only 19 years old, and I chances are will suffer more than a lot of people here. My suffering however, is nothing compared to those with terminal illness, cancer ect. I am very happy to be as 'healthy' as I am.
Viruses, carnivores, and parasites exist because they can. Just like we exist because we can. There is nothing god-driven about existence.
If ever conditions cease to be hospitable to an organism, it will cease to exist. Like dinosaurs. Or smallpox.
The fact that something is unpleasant or deadly to humans doesn't mean it's out to get us. It just means that living things are by nature opportunistic. All living things feed on each other. We feed on plants and animals and they feed on us. This fact tells us nothing about God.
__________________ Well the lush separation unfolds you --
and the products of wealth
push you along on the bow wave
of the spiritless undying selves.
And you press on God's waiter your last dime --
as he hands you the bill.
And you spin in the slipstream --
timeless -- unreasoning --
paddle right out of the mess.
- Jethro Tull
Last edited by judy; 30th October 2003 at 01:04 AM.
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