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Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.

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  #1  
Old 29th October 2003, 11:29 AM
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In the beginning

There was nothing. Then, for no reason... BANG! everything that we know and love flew out at different angles, rocks and stars started hitting each other and stuff... then water came out of this explosion and evolution turned mud into humans.

Also, where did the law of conservation of energy and mass go throughout the big bang? Because there was nothing, right... then out of nothing came a huge explosion and heaps of rocks and heavy stuff that weighs more than nothing appeared.
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  #2  
Old 29th October 2003, 11:44 AM
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Well... what I'd suggest is that you read many more posts within this forum as each and every word of your post has already been discussed numerous times. What you state isn't close to the reality of the Big Bang, abiogenesis or evolutionary theories. It's simply a bad strawman which shows your ignorance of science far more than it questions the possibility of it.
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  #3  
Old 29th October 2003, 11:44 AM
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Alternatively, you could actually read up what the Big Bang theory states.
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  #4  
Old 29th October 2003, 11:46 AM
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Whats a bad strawman?
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Old 29th October 2003, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Shimmerstar
Whats a bad strawman?
A strawman is when, instead of directing your comments to what a theory actually states, you post your take on what you think it states in an attempt to show it's outlandishness. This can be created on purpose or out of ignorance. In this case what you've posted is most certainly improbable. It's also not even related to the science you're attempting to show up. Thus you've created a strawman and it's not even a good one.
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  #6  
Old 29th October 2003, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Shimmerstar
Whats a bad strawman?
It's when you make a statement playing on peoples ignorance instead of arguing by using facts.
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  #7  
Old 29th October 2003, 12:03 PM
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oh ok. i dont want to be a strawman then.

In my first paragraph... What is outlandish? There was nothing, and then bang! for no reason (unless someone knows what the first cause was). Then everything that we know and love flew out at different angles (well maybe they were in a different form back then, but you get my drift) then water came out of the explosion (where else did water come from?) and then evolution (the process) turned mud (enriched with phosphate and other mineral goodies) into humans (eventually, but i say it like this because its such a small time in comparison to the apparent age of the universe).

Also, the law of conservation of energy was broken... unless it is independent of time. Because something came from nothing. Please discuss.
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  #8  
Old 29th October 2003, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Shimmerstar
oh ok. i dont want to be a strawman then.

In my first paragraph... What is outlandish? There was nothing, and then bang! for no reason (unless someone knows what the first cause was). Then everything that we know and love flew out at different angles (well maybe they were in a different form back then, but you get my drift)
But this is the problem - it's a simplification to the point of absurdity.

Why does an unknown cause mean there was no cause?

You seem to see the Big Bang as an explosion in space. It wasn't; it was an expansion of space.

then water came out of the explosion (where else did water come from?)
Water? It formed from the reaction of hydrogen and oxygen. But this happened long, long after the Big Bang - heavier elements than hydrogen are formed in stars, so there must have been the first stars before there was any oxygen and thus water.

and then evolution (the process) turned mud (enriched with phosphate and other mineral goodies) into humans (eventually, but i say it like this because its such a small time in comparison to the apparent age of the universe).
Well no. Evolution doesn't change mud into anything, because it is a process limited to reproducing replicators. And the total time from the first life to humanity is at least 3 billion years - hardly a small time in comparison to the c. 13 billion years the universe has been around.

Also, the law of conservation of energy was broken... unless it is independent of time. Because something came from nothing. Please discuss.
Depends. If there's negative energy as well the sum total energy of the universe might be zero, so there's no breaking of the law. Then again, at what point does the law of the conservation of energy start to be applicable?
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  #9  
Old 29th October 2003, 12:16 PM
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Perhaps it will help Shimmerstar if we show you why your post was a strawman?

"There was nothing"
This is an unsupported claim. We do not know whether there was nothing prior to the big bang or not. Come to that we don't know if there was a "before". There may or may not have been nothing.

"Then, for no reason..."
Who says there was no reason? There may have been a god that said "let the show start". There may simply have been some property to whatever gave rise to the big bang that meant it had no choice. We don't know.

"BANG! everything that we know and love flew out at different angles"
Plain wrong. The "big bang" didn't go bang. There was no explosion, it was an expansion. To help you understand this, draw a load of dots on a balloon. Then inflate it a bit. The dots have moved apart, but they haven't exploded (unless you got carried away); they have expanded apart.

"rocks and stars started hitting each other and stuff... then water came out of this explosion"
Nope, nope and nope. The big bang would have given rise to whatever the basic building blocks of space, time, matter and energy are. Rocks, stars and water would not have appeared fully formed.

"and evolution turned mud into humans"
Life from non life is abiogenesis, not evolution. You need life before it can evolve.

So you are asking a bunch of questions based on false assumptions of the topic. That is why your post was a strawman.

Care to try again?

G.
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  #10  
Old 29th October 2003, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Shimmerstar
There was nothing.
Or maybe everything, compressed into a singularity.

Originally Posted by Shimmerstar
Then, for no reason...
No known reason


Originally Posted by Shimmerstar
BANG! everything that we know and love flew out at different angles, rocks and stars started hitting each other and stuff...
You're skipping a few steps and a few million years.

Originally Posted by Shimmerstar
then water came out of this explosion
No.

Originally Posted by Shimmerstar
evolution turned mud into humans.
There were a lot of chemicals in that mud. The sun provided energy for new chemical reactions.

Originally Posted by Shimmerstar
Also, where did the law of conservation of energy and mass go throughout the big bang?
They didn't exist until the universe had expanded to beyond the Planck length.
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