Ridding the world of evil-doers?

panterapat · #11 1st November 2003, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by datan

what did Iraq have to do with terrorists (except the ones that Bush created there)?

Please do not confuse 'noble' with 'self-interest'. The US eliminated the Tablian and Saddam regimes because it was in its self-interest to do so--not because it was the 'noble' thing. If it were out to do noble things, it would:

1. not abandon Afghanistan and 'forget' to give them foreign aid so much so that the PM had to go begging to Congress. What happened to nation building in Afghanistan?
2. have stayed and finished the job in Liberia. Instead what ever happened to US intervention in Liberia and what exactly did it accomplish?
3. go through the list of evil dictators posted above and try to do something about them
4. not be trying to get out of Iraq as soon as possible before the elections now that it's turning out to be a huge mess
5. not deal with oppressive regimes like oh China (Tibet, Mongolia, you know...)

It is in the US self interest to promote freedom around the globe. Is there a problem with that?

1. Afganistan has not been abandoned. Buch has asked for more money for them and our troops are still there.

2. Liberia? Bush can't win. He gets bashed for staying in Iraq and bashed for not staying in Liberia.

3. You can't get everyone at once.

4.The pressure is on him from the US media to get out quickly. Bush would rather stay until the job is done. Post WWII Germany waited seven years to form thier own government.

5. China has nukes- that changes the equation. Thank kGod that Israel took out Saddam's nuke plants back in the 90's or the kGulf war may have been a totally different story. Keep this in mind with N. Korea.

"panterapat - I'm sorry, but this is hopelessly naive."
How so???

Doctrine1st · #12 1st November 2003, 09:58 AM

Thank kGod that Israel took out Saddam's nuke plants back in the 90's or the kGulf war may have been a totally different story. Keep this in mind with N. Korea

Hey, here's a ideal, not new but nevertheless an ideal. Maybe the Iraq war has more to do with protecting Israel than it has ever been with protecting us? Because after all, they were never a threat to us anyway.

Zlex · #13 1st November 2003, 11:23 AM

In an article in the June 30 National Review, Mansoor Ijaz, a terrorism expert and chairman of New York-based Crescent Investment Management, chillingly connects the dots between Iraq and international terrorism. He recalls that Abu Abbas, architect of the 1985 Achille Lauro hijacking recently was found living in Iraq, as was Khala Khadr al-Salahat, the alleged designer of the radio-bomb that demolished Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in December 1988, killing all 259 on board and 11 on the ground.

Ijaz cites an Iraqi intelligence document in which the secret Mukhabarat invited a senior al Qaeda operative to Baghdad from the Sudan. The correspondence said: "We may find in this envoy a way to maintain contacts with bin Laden." The al Qaeda representative indeed visited Baghdad in March 1998, five months before the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania exploded, killing 224 people, 12 of them American, and wounding some 5,000 others, many of them Africans and Muslims.

Manhattan federal judge Harold Baer, meanwhile, ordered Hussein and Iraq's former government to pay $104 million in damages to the families of two men murdered in the September 11 World Trade Center attacks. "I conclude that plaintiffs have shown, albeit barely...that Iraq provided material support to bin Laden and al Qaeda," Baer ruled May 7. He found that expert testimony by former CIA chief James Woolsey and remarks by Secretary of State Colin Powell to the United Nations constituted "sufficient basis for a reasonable jury to draw inferences" of Iraqi guilt.

"Maintain?" Not "Establish?" No, "Maintain."

But, a few fringe anarcho-commies are still bouncing around in their Big Headed Puppets squealing, "Nuh-uh, that doesn't mean squat, the dots have not been connected, we're not convinced...Bush is an Idyit."

Still, I guess 'barely' only counts in horshoes, hand grenades, and, in front of one court in Manhatten, terrorist bombings.

You're a terrorrist on the A-List, and on the lam; where you going to go? apparently, the answer used to be resoundingly 'Iraq.'

Now, back to the tempera painted 'Bush didn't prove the case!' big headed puppet parade.

Poor terrorists; they got to live somewhere. It's not fair picking on Iraq, maybe Saddam was just an innocent dupe. Besides, after all, are they not human? If you prick them, do they not bleed?

Well, Hell, let's find out, because it's officially and freshly open season on these nutbags.

If you are having a hard time figuring out which side to cheer on, if the mythical fear of Ashecroft busting in on your little overweight middle aged suburban pot party just blows the image of planes full of civilians in airliners crashing into 110 story office buildings right out of your head, then ... go back to your self-sensation worshipping stupor, or seek help.

panterapat · #14 1st November 2003, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Doctrine1st

Hey, here's a ideal, not new but nevertheless an ideal. Maybe the Iraq war has more to do with protecting Israel than it has ever been with protecting us? Because after all, they were never a threat to us anyway.

I would have not problem with that. The Jews are the chosen people of God. In the end times, I certainly want to be on the side of the Jews

panterapat · #15 1st November 2003, 02:33 PM

There have been no alleged cases of the Patriot Act being misused YET. It is something that will need to be watched.

BTW- Timothy McVey (Oklahoma City bombing) was found with Iraqi phone numbers in his wallet.

Doctrine1st · #16 1st November 2003, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by panterapat

I would have not problem with that. The Jews are the chosen people of God. In the end times, I certainly want to be on the side of the Jews

Well, I would and I would imagine a whole lot of people would have a problem with Bush lying about the premise for the war. Moreover, if Bush justified the war with your line of thought, that being the Bible, well, actully I doubt it. Bush likes to quote the Bible, and may read snipets of the Bible, but as many followers of Jesus will say, he aint much of a Christian.

Doctrine1st · #17 1st November 2003, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by panterapat

There have been no alleged cases of the Patriot Act being misused YET. It is something that will need to be watched.

BTW- Timothy McVey (Oklahoma City bombing) was found with Iraqi phone numbers in his wallet.

That's a new one. Wasn't McVeigh in Iraq I? Guess what, not only are our troops over now probably coming back with phone numbers, they're actually coming back with wives too.

Even the luney WordDailyNet, the source to which many mistake it's editorials for actual news, states that claim of McVeigh and Iraq connection is an assertion.

Lillithspeak · #18 2nd November 2003, 01:31 PM

Only the willfully ignorant can possibly believe the horse manure the administration spreads around. Those of us who spoke out against it were called America Haters, commies, and who knows what else-yet here we are just as we predicted. No end in sight because we didn't understand their culture, don't understand the nature of clans, don't get it on so many levels that the idea of a workable democracy is so far in the future as to be generational if at all and yet more and more of our soldiers, aid workers and reporters are dying every day, and those that aren't dying are losing limbs, more than a thousand at last count have lost arms or legs or both.

But of course, those military that make it home in one piece-I'm sure they'll be all ready to go do this again in some other Islamic country that isn't any more ready for democracy than your local beehive.