Catholic Perverts?

I noticed there was an inquiry into the subject of there being (allegedly) a lot of "perverts" in the Catholic clergy.

First, I think the motives of people asking the question need to be examined. Are they really concerned about kids, or is this polemical? Even if it is the latter, however, it is a charge (given media coverage), that needs to be addressed.

Most of the people who have taken a polemical tone over this series of tragedies, will cite "clerical celibacy" as being the reason why things like this occur.

But I propose looking at the situation from another angle, and believe that when you do such, it becomes obvious that is not the root cause of the problem. For instance, when you find a pedophile in the general population, do you even question for a second whether or not his demented affection is the result of being 'sexually deprived'? Of course not, you realize this is a condition that is the result of perhaps earlier childhood abuse experienced by the perpetraitor, or some other form of criminal illness of the mind. It could also be a result of sexually deviant attitudes on the whole, which said persons have lost control of; preying on children is a twisted fetish for them.

Obviously, no well adjusted person desires children, even if they're feeling "deprived", anymore than being simply sexually deprived would make a lust filled person want to act out with an animal. There's a leap which must occur elsewhere, in the mind, before such a monstrosity is possible.

Without over stressing the link between homosexuality and pedophilia (I think it's over stated, though there is in some cases a link), I think both homosexuals and pedophiles may be ending up in the priesthood in increasing numbers for similar reasons. While I don't think every second modern priest is a pedophile, I do think it is a problem, and a growing one, which Catholics have to get honest about (and I'm saying this as a Catholic.)

The problem, is that the priesthood is in itself a fairly safe, secure, challenge free job in it's modern expression. Priests now are more or less being molded into religious social workers. Fast disappearing is the sense that this is a manly position; where one stands as the intermediary between God and men, offering true sacrifices for sins, in the very person of Christ Jesus. In many cases, in particularly the religious life, the vocation has been entirely lost.

I think this, along with the general decline in clear Catholic teaching on all subjects, and the ascetical dimension of the faith (and a sense of seriousness), has contributed to the priesthood becoming a "soft job", and a good place for effiminate men, homosexuals, and sadly even pedophiles, to begin congregating. Given that all of these groups have a similar problem, they will be similarly drawn.

What is needed, is a "reform of the reform"...I say, admit we screwed up, return to a normal, Catholic sacramental life (traditional rites, appropriately modified, not just thrown out the window like the post-Vat II set did), and a return to that good old Christ based intolerance which so many "Catholics" are now trying to squirm out of. Because let's face it, Catholicism is a very intolerant religion; it knows it's right, it calls all else falsehood, and leads to perdition. This whole "pedophile" problem is only part of a much bigger mess, which is only snow balling.

Augustine

I agree that there has to be a much stronger emphasis on traditional Catholic teaching; and in fact, the pendulum is swinging that way more and more all the time, now that the younger generation is coming into its own and the '60s generation is mercifully on its way out.

It's high time to start actually implementing what Vatican II actually stated, instead of the goofy liberal agendas that have been foisted off on the faithful, with the claim that they are what Vatican II stated. They're not.

However, I don't think that a return to The Golden Era of 1958 Before All That Ucky Stuff Happened is the answer, either.

I think you're both right. I'm going to add my $.02 too, now. My DH is a former seminarian from the Pontifical College Josephinum in Columbus, OH. It is a very conservative institution and the only pontifical institution in the U.S. When he was a senior, he was curious and went out to the Ohio State Univ bars, out of curiosity, but also because he just wanted to go somewhere for a few pints. Well, that wasn't allowed & the group he was with got caught. Everybody but him lied about their whereabouts (even though the rector and other formation advisors knew where these men had been). The ones that lied are now priests. My husband was not recommended to go onto Major seminary - because he told the TRUTH!!!!! When he questioned them, their answer was that they didn't want to create a scandal, and somebody admitting wrongdoing would do just that. His response was "so, you'd rather have somebody keep dirty secrets in the closet & have them come out later in a worse way than deal with them now and cause embarrassment now?" Granted, these men were not scoping out women and trying to get a cheap *hmm,hmm,hmm* but it is still sad that they were not punished for lying about what they were doing. Granted, they quickly dealt with seminarians who acted inappropriately in more serious ways (there were a few cross-dressers who mysteriously disappeared overnight)....

I think that is what is wrong with a lot of the Church today - they don't want to deal with the issue until it is forced out. I love my Church, but I find this flaw to be very damaging to the faith as a whole. I have non-Catholic friends who ask me if I'm afraid to let the priests touch Tommy! It is ridiculous. I know that our priests are all very holy men, and I highly doubt that any kind of thoughts like that have ever crossed their minds.

*sigh* Starting to ramble here, so I'll end while I'm ahead.

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Amy
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Liam has arrived!!! February 3, 2003

Ever see the movie Mass Appeal with Jack Lemmon?

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Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

That's not a very nice thing to say. I doubt if being catholic causes perversions. Most of my family and friends are catholic, and NONE of them are perverts!

But I think it's healthy and healing for the problems in the church to come out into the open. Bad things that are covered up rot and fester, both for the victim and the abuser, but opening it all up to the light of day and applying the salve of justice and mercy lets it heal.

Abuse left in secret spreads, widely and quickly.

Do you think the celebacy thing needs to be rethought? A lot of my catholic friends think so.

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Carry only love. Hate is a burden that is tremendously heavy.

If you want to live like Jesus, love your enemies and give up your life for them.

No, why? I don't even know what it's about.

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Amy
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Liam has arrived!!! February 3, 2003

Mass Appeal is a movie about a young seminarian and a crusty pastor dealing with vocations, celibacy, the priesthood, church politics and clerical life in general.

It is an interesting movie.

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Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

Hmmm... interesting. Haven't heard of it until now. I may check it out.

I don't know anything about the other men that my DH was with. They may be very fine, holy priests now. Chances are, they probably are (if they are in a good parish with a good priest for a role model). They just needed some time to mature (although, with that maturation, they should've been made to face up to the consequences of their actions - a reprimand at least).

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Amy
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Liam has arrived!!! February 3, 2003

What bothers me is the comments by the Pope's private secretary this past weekend, using gays as a scapegoat, and basically turning the fact that the Church hasn't done the right thing from the begininning and thrown these molestors to the dogs into an attack on gays. He even said that gays are not welcomed in the priesthood, and in fact are incapable of being ordained. It was all quite vulgar and bigotted. Very disappointing.

While there is no strong tie between homosexuality and pedophilia, there are a lot of good gay priests out there. By my experience, perhaps as many as 1/3 of all the priests I know are probably gay. Including my confessor. Does that mean I've not recieved the sacrament of confession in two years? Or communion? Or my sister's child wasn't really baptized?

Its bad enough that the Church hasn't done the right thing about these molestors in the first place. But to drag an entirely unrelated and valuable subset of the priesthood through the mud to cover up the inaction of the Vatican is inexcusable.

IKWYM, AlphaPhi. I think there are lots of gay priests - just that they don't act on their tendencies. My DH (who is very conservative) doesn't see anything wrong with this, and neither do I. I mean, the act of homosexuality is a sin, and anyone committing it, is guilty. A priest takes a vow of celibacy, and shouldn't be committing any sexual act in the first place, be it homo- or heterosexual. In fact, I think religious life is a good place for these men, as it gives them a healthy and holy channel for their love to go (provided they maintain celibacy).

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Amy
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Liam has arrived!!! February 3, 2003