Cops find themselves in arms race with criminals.

Robert43 · #1 7th November 2007, 02:49 AM

WEST PALM BEACH, Florida (CNN) -- The war on the streets is escalating. As gangs and other criminals pack more firepower, police departments say they find themselves in an arms race.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/05/cops.guns/index.html

TheReasoner · #2 7th November 2007, 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by Robert43

WEST PALM BEACH, Florida (CNN) -- The war on the streets is escalating. As gangs and other criminals pack more firepower, police departments say they find themselves in an arms race.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/05/cops.guns/index.html

Hm. Maybe, with strict gun control from some time ago this could have been eliminated.
Mind you, I am talking about gun CONTROL. Not elimination. A lot of people misunderstand that.

Blackguard_ · #3 7th November 2007, 02:58 AM

As a result, the Brady organization supports police officers arming themselves with high-powered weapons "to protect themselves and their communities," he said.

Cod drat elistists.

He lays the blame squarely on lawmakers who allowed the assault weapons ban to expire in 2004.

Dude, the same weapons were legal during the ban, you just couldn't get certain relatively minor features and had to pay more for the over 10-round mags(since no more were being made).

Designed to be fired from the hip, assault rifles such as the AK-47 can spray at a rate of up to 600 rounds a minute in full automatic mode. It is the weapon of choice for guerillas and gangsters.

This guys an idiot who watches too many acition movies. The AK is not desinged to be fired from the hip, and gangsters prefer handguns(I wonder if he thinks they're designed to be fired sideways too?).

Hm. Maybe, with strict gun control from some time ago this could have been eliminated.
Mind you, I am talking about gun CONTROL. Not elimination. A lot of people misunderstand that.

I wonder if the police got rid of their heavier weapons in 1994?

Anyway, gun control and gun elimination often do mean the same thing.

Things like mandatory gun safety classes, that's control without elimination, but you have to admit control and banning are often synonomous.

TheReasoner · #4 7th November 2007, 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by Blackguard_

Cod drat elistists.

Dude, the same weapons were legal during the ban, you just couldn't get certain relatively minor features and had to pay more for the over 10-round mags(since no more were being made).

This guys an idiot who watches too many acition movies. The AK is not desinged to be fired from the hip, and gangsters prefer handguns(I wonder if he thinks they're designed to be fired sideways too?).

They are often the same.

I have to admit I have not read the article. Firing AK-47s from the HIP?
Well, if you manage you're one buff man! The AK47 packs a heck of a punch. The recoil of a 7.62 weapon is very powerful, and the AK is not the best boy in that class. Firing such a weapon on automatic can be hard even when crouching or laying down if you are not trained in it's use. When standing up, most people only manage to fire such weapons in short bursts, let alone 'spraying'. Trying that usually sends the weapon way out of the user's control.

Blackguard_ · #5 7th November 2007, 03:09 AM

have to admit I have not read the article. Firing AK-47s from the HIP?

Yeah, pretty silly.

Well, if you manage you're one buff man! The AK47 packs a heck of a punch. The recoil of a 7.62 weapon is very powerful, and the AK is not the best boy in that class. Firing such a weapon on automatic can be hard even when crouching or laying down if you are not trained in it's use. When standing up, most people only manage to fire such weapons in short bursts, let alone 'spraying'.

Uhh, but the recoil of the 7.62 round the AK uses doesn't pack much of a punch. It uses the 7.62x39, not the 7.62x51 cartridge, unless you're using some sort of weird variant. I don't doubt they're hard to control on automatic though, it's not like the round has no recoil and AKs can be pretty light.

Or are you comparing it to 9mm submachine guns or somthing?

TheReasoner · #6 7th November 2007, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by Blackguard_

Yeah, pretty silly.

Uhh, but the recoil of the 7.62 round the AK uses doesn't pack much of a punch. It uses the 7.62x39, not the 7.62x51 cartridge, unless you're using some sort of weird variant. I don't doubt they're hard to control on automatic though, it's not like the round has no recoil and AKs can be pretty light.

Or are you comparing it to 9mm submachine guns or somthing?

ah. Now that's where I made a mistake. If forgot that it isn't using the 7.62x51, which the AG3 uses. The rifle I am used to.

I take that back then. It wouldn't be that hard to control. Still not a weapon you'd fire from your hip though.

Billnew · #7 7th November 2007, 08:05 AM

M16 and Ak can be fired from the hip, but thats not saying alot. You can't aim from the hip.

Police have been in competition with criminals for decades.
There isn't great improvements in firearms. You buy the best firearm with a magazine, then train with it.
Most criminals don't practice. So they spray bullets in the general direction.
Police should be able to shoot well placed shots.

7.62x39 is a great round. Low residue to clean, usually
reliable. AK's are built for abuse by the shooter and still be able to fire.
Mini 30(not affected by Assault weapons ban) shoots very precise and has a good rate of fire.
I doubt anyone but the best could get a 600 rd ROF
in a semi auto. I believe this rate is for the fully auto model. (20-30rd magazines in a minute?)

m16 vs AK, recoil is about the same. But the 7.62 rd is alot bigger punch.

wheel guns are not safe in gang areas, even with speedloaders. The gang members have 12-20 rds, and if they know the cop has a wheel gun, he has 6 bangs and then they can charge him.
Not much of an arms race.
Are gangbangers getting the 50 cals? Fully automatic weapons? No.
They buy the coolest looking gun with lots of spare bullets.