Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
--its quite simple to point out Morton's fallacy here (it was a rather humerous essay in my opinion ):
--I think I have said it more than once that various environmental conditions (including local water depth, or whether there was water at all in the region) will vary geographically. After a certain sedimentary deposit it could have been several days or even weeks before there would be another deposit on top of this one. That the turtle coprolite in Morton's article exhibits dessication cracks from drying out is no big surprise.
--No, they just did what their species was either created for, or has been doing for several hundred million years, attempting to preserve the species. As far as we can tell, the most prominent function of most animals is to eat, reproduce, and die. Besides, general consensus has it that dino's were not the most intelligent creatures on the planet.
--You sure they didn't lay the eggs and then the sediment came to burry them?
Cheers,
-Chris Grose
So this flood which deposited thousands of feet of sediment all over the world in less than a year left gaps of weeks while animal dung dried out. Then came in again and buried the animals with their dung. And the animals somehow survived the deposition of the thousands of feet of sediment under them and were walking around depositing dung that got dried out. And you think this makes sense. Hmm. Have you really thought through the scenario you are proposing? It doesn't seem that way to me.
Why don't you explain to us how there were animals and insects even still around to make tracks in the Coconino Sandstones after the Tapeats Sandstone, Bright Angel Shale, Muav Limestone, Grand Wash Dolomites, Temple Butte Limestone, Redwall Limestones, Surprise Canyon Formation, Supai Group and Hermit Shale Formation were deposited under them by a worldwide flood.
Then explain how there were animals around to make tracks in the upper part of the Chinle Formation after the Tapeats Sandstone, Bright Angel Shale, Muav Limestone, Grand Wash Dolomites, Temple Butte Limestone, Redwall Limestones, Surprise Canyon Formation, Supai Group and Hermit Shale Formation, Coconino Sandstones,Toroweap Formation, Kabab Limestones, and Moenkopi Formation were deposited under them by a worldwide flood.
Then explain how there were dinosaurs around to make thracks in the Navajo Sandstones after the the Tapeats Sandstone, Bright Angel Shale, Muav Limestone, Grand Wash Dolomites, Temple Butte Limestone, Redwall Limestones, Surprise Canyon Formation, Supai Group and Hermit Shale Formation, Coconino Sandstones,Toroweap Formation, Kabab Limestones, Moenkopi Formation, Chinle Formation,Wingate Formation and Kayenta Formation were deposited under them by a worldwide flood.
And the tracks in the Wingate formation and Kayenta formation and so on.
The explain how all those delicate features such as termite and other insect nests got preserved by a worldwide flood that was depositing thousands of feet of sediment.
Explain the animals burrows that show that animals were digging around and living there normal lives while thousands of feet of sediment were supposedly being deposited on top of them by a worldwide flood.
__________________ "One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive,to find, and not to yield." Alfred, Lord Tennyson
__________________ Be very very quiet............ I am hunting Wabbits!!!!!! call me anytime if you need a Ninja. 555-i-kick-hi To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Explain the animals burrows that show that animals were digging around and living there normal lives while thousands of feet of sediment were supposedly being deposited on top of them by a worldwide flood.
The frumious Bandersnatch
Increased radioactivity gave them super powers.
Is there anything that accelerated decay can't explain?
So this flood which deposited thousands of feet of sediment all over the world in less than a year left gaps of weeks while animal dung dried out.
--Close enough.
Then came in again and buried the animals with their dung. And the animals somehow survived the deposition of the thousands of feet of sediment under them and were walking around depositing dung that got dried out. And you think this makes sense. Hmm. Have you really thought through the scenario you are proposing? It doesn't seem that way to me.
--I don't see why it doesn't make sense. Maybe you need to cite a very specific stratigraphic framework so that we can apply the situtation to what we really see in the geologic column. For instance, do we found a mammals dung in a low stratum, and then we find the same type of mammals dung again superposing it and a significant amount of sediment which is an extensively lateral deposit? Or do we see something else? Details details.
Why don't you explain to us how there were animals and insects even still around to make tracks in the Coconino Sandstones after the Tapeats Sandstone, Bright Angel Shale, Muav Limestone, Grand Wash Dolomites, Temple Butte Limestone, Redwall Limestones, Surprise Canyon Formation, Supai Group and Hermit Shale Formation were deposited under them by a worldwide flood.
Then explain how there were animals around to make tracks in the upper part of the Chinle Formation after the Tapeats Sandstone, Bright Angel Shale, Muav Limestone, Grand Wash Dolomites, Temple Butte Limestone, Redwall Limestones, Surprise Canyon Formation, Supai Group and Hermit Shale Formation, Coconino Sandstones,Toroweap Formation, Kabab Limestones, and Moenkopi Formation were deposited under them by a worldwide flood.
Then explain how there were dinosaurs around to make thracks in the Navajo Sandstones after the the Tapeats Sandstone, Bright Angel Shale, Muav Limestone, Grand Wash Dolomites, Temple Butte Limestone, Redwall Limestones, Surprise Canyon Formation, Supai Group and Hermit Shale Formation, Coconino Sandstones,Toroweap Formation, Kabab Limestones, Moenkopi Formation, Chinle Formation,Wingate Formation and Kayenta Formation were deposited under them by a worldwide flood.
And the tracks in the Wingate formation and Kayenta formation and so on.
--It would be a lot easier for you to explain why they shouldn't be there. Do you have some geological real world details?
The explain how all those delicate features such as termite and other insect nests got preserved by a worldwide flood that was depositing thousands of feet of sediment.
--Do you have a specific fossil nest whose surrounding lithology we can work with?
Explain the animals burrows that show that animals were digging around and living there normal lives while thousands of feet of sediment were supposedly being deposited on top of them by a worldwide flood.
--Which animal borrow would that be? Do you have a specific citation? I think you need one..or more. Are you sure taht thousands of feet of sediment were being deposited on top of them while they were digging?
Does any scientist, creationist or evolutionist, really know the specific date of the Flood, and of the specific rock layers that it is in?
Maybe what you are describing ARE dinosaurs and other animals living their lives while massive floods (but not the Flood) wiped them out. There are many records of massive floods throughout the world that are not the Flood of Genesis 6-7. I mean, using Occam's Razor, that would be the most obvious answer.
Using Occams razor could be dangerous. The bible could be the first to go!
__________________ "One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive,to find, and not to yield." Alfred, Lord Tennyson
--....was deposited before the eggs were layed... the principle of superposition.
So these eggs were laid after several thousand feet of sediments were deposited under the area where the eggs were laid. Chris, you seem like an intelligent person, Why can't you see how absurd this is?
I don't see why it doesn't make sense. Maybe you need to cite a very specific stratigraphic framework so that we can apply the situtation to what we really see in the geologic column. For instance, do we found a mammals dung in a low stratum, and then we find the same type of mammals dung again superposing it and a significant amount of sediment which is an extensively lateral deposit? Or do we see something else? Details details.
Here is a page with the description of a therapod coprolite found in Cretaceous deposits in Saskatchewan http://wrgis.wr.usgs.gov/king-sized-coprolite.html
BTW coprolites often show that dung beetles have been working on them. http://www.dinodata.net/DNM/chin.htm
Quite remarkable if they were dumped on top of thousands of feet of previous flood deposits.
--It would be a lot easier for you to explain why they shouldn't be there. Do you have some geological real world details?
I have explained why these tracks shouldn't be there with real world details of the stratigraphy underlying them. It is easy to explain why the shouldn't be there if the sedimentary layers of the Colorado plateau, which amount to many differnt strata with thousands of feet of total thickness were deposited by a worldwide flood. What you can't do is explain how they could be there.
This site has a detailed analysis of the strata of the Colorado Plateau and gives many reasons why they are NOT deposits of a worlwide flood. http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/grand.htm
There is a picture of the stratigraphy here. http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/grand2.htm
These strata extend over large areas and are thousands of feet deep. The Coconino Sandstones overlay thousands of feet of extensive sediments and yet they have animal tracks. The Navajo sandstones overlay even more sediments and yet they have dinosaur tracks. There are trace fossils all through these strata that are incompatable with deposition by a worldwide flood.
Do you have a specific fossil nest whose surrounding lithology we can work with?
Of course you would like to try to focus on some specific nest so that you could try to come up with some ad hoc explanation for it. However, there are nests throughout ancient paleosols which of course shouldn't be part of flood deposits either but that's another story.
Which animal borrow would that be? Do you have a specific citation? I think you need one..or more. Are you sure taht thousands of feet of sediment were being deposited on top of them while they were digging?
Trace fossils that are incompatable with deposition by a worldwide flood are found all through the thousands of feet of strata that YECs claim are flood deposits. These trace fossils falsify the claim that the world's sedimentary geology can be explained by a worldwide flood.
):
sorry, just came to my mind. 
Linear Mode
