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23rd September 2007, 05:16 PM
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Reps: 102,139 (power: 108) | | | Open invitation - Is there ANY truth whatsoever in Genesis?
I have come to the conclusion that Genesis is a book written by man for man, using the best knowledge they had at the time.
Can anyone prove me wrong?
Is there any evidence to suggest that ANY part of Genesis is real?
Anyhing at all, any claim no matter how small, I want to know about it.
Atheists and theists alike, this is an open invitaion to you all.
I look forward to your words of wisdom.
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"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Professor Richard Dawkins.
"It ain't the parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand." - Mark Twain
"The inspiration of the bible depends on the ignorance of the person who reads it." - Robert G. Ingersoll |
24th September 2007, 04:34 PM
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Reps: 84,929,301,057,186,064 (power: 84,929,301,057,204) | | Originally Posted by NailsII  I have come to the conclusion that Genesis is a book written by man for man, using the best knowledge they had at the time.
Can anyone prove me wrong?
Is there any evidence to suggest that ANY part of Genesis is real?
Anyhing at all, any claim no matter how small, I want to know about it.
Atheists and theists alike, this is an open invitaion to you all.
I look forward to your words of wisdom.
Off of the top of my head, Genesis claims that humanity knows right from wrong, which seems to be true.
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“Because they know not the forces of nature, and in order that they may have comrades in their ignorance, they suffer not that others should search out anything, and would have us believe like rustics and ask no reason...But we ask in all things a reason must be sought.” --William of Conches (c. 1090 – after 1154) |
25th September 2007, 12:02 AM
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Reps: 250 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Loudmouth Off of the top of my head, Genesis claims that humanity knows right from wrong, which seems to be true.
I'm not an expert on Genesis by any means, but I thought you were supposed to establish a relationship with God to find out what right and wrong is. Either that or go and learn about it in Church. Any specific references from the Bible? |
25th September 2007, 02:49 PM
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Reps: 84,929,301,057,186,064 (power: 84,929,301,057,204) | | Originally Posted by DJPavel I'm not an expert on Genesis by any means, but I thought you were supposed to establish a relationship with God to find out what right and wrong is. Either that or go and learn about it in Church. Any specific references from the Bible?
Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of Good and Evil. God was disappointed because "now they are like us, knowing good from evil." Genesis indicates that we have a sense of morality that is separate from a relationship of God.
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“Because they know not the forces of nature, and in order that they may have comrades in their ignorance, they suffer not that others should search out anything, and would have us believe like rustics and ask no reason...But we ask in all things a reason must be sought.” --William of Conches (c. 1090 – after 1154) |
25th September 2007, 06:07 PM
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Reps: 102,139 (power: 108) | | Originally Posted by Loudmouth Off of the top of my head, Genesis claims that humanity knows right from wrong, which seems to be true.
But only through disobedience....
Isn't this a bit of a paradox? Originally Posted by Loudmouth Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of Good and Evil. God was disappointed because "now they are like us, knowing good from evil." Genesis indicates that we have a sense of morality that is separate from a relationship of God.
A good start, but not really concrete.
I would argue that morals are not set in stone and are flexible to each situation - with or without god.
But I agree basically.
As other mammals are displaying moral values, this is going to be a bit of a no-win argument.
Anyone?
Anything else?
there must be more than one fact in the opening chapter that we can verify...
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"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Professor Richard Dawkins.
"It ain't the parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand." - Mark Twain
"The inspiration of the bible depends on the ignorance of the person who reads it." - Robert G. Ingersoll |
25th September 2007, 06:27 PM
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Last edited by TheBear; 25th September 2007 at 06:44 PM.
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25th September 2007, 11:38 PM
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Reps: 250 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Loudmouth Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of Good and Evil. God was disappointed because "now they are like us, knowing good from evil." Genesis indicates that we have a sense of morality that is separate from a relationship of God.
That's a good point. Since I'm a descendant of this disobidient couple, I have the knowledge of good and evil as well... |
26th September 2007, 03:11 PM
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Reps: 102,139 (power: 108) | | Originally Posted by TheBear oops!
Interesting analogy.
I have a degree in biochemistry and genetics and I work as a food scientist.
Hence, despite a strong background in genetics I have done no active research in this field outside of my undergrad studies.
The main reason for joining a message board is plain, old simple debate.
Debating religion and learning about faith is something that you just cannot do at work (for obvious reasons) and can't be acheived just by reading a book.
i try not to be technical, I spend my life around laymen (and, to be fair, consider myself to be one really) and....
I will leave any labelling decisions to the masses.
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"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Professor Richard Dawkins.
"It ain't the parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand." - Mark Twain
"The inspiration of the bible depends on the ignorance of the person who reads it." - Robert G. Ingersoll |
26th September 2007, 05:29 PM
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Reps: 84,929,301,057,186,064 (power: 84,929,301,057,204) | | Originally Posted by NailsII But only through disobedience....
Isn't this a bit of a paradox?
They were told that if they ate of the tree they would die. I would say that they discovered Good and Evil through curiosity analogous to the Pandora's Box myth. A good start, but not really concrete.
I would argue that morals are not set in stone and are flexible to each situation - with or without god.
But most agree on what is or isn't moral in any given situation. Anyway, Genesis states that our knowledge of morality is independent of a relationship with God. I would agree. Anyone?
Anything else?
there must be more than one fact in the opening chapter that we can verify...
There was a beginning to our universe. In fact, it is this very reason that many scientists rejected the Big Bang model when it was first proposed (by a Jesuit priest, nonetheless). The BB model does have religious overtones compared to the then popular Steady State model.
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“Because they know not the forces of nature, and in order that they may have comrades in their ignorance, they suffer not that others should search out anything, and would have us believe like rustics and ask no reason...But we ask in all things a reason must be sought.” --William of Conches (c. 1090 – after 1154) |
27th September 2007, 03:32 PM
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Reps: 102,139 (power: 108) | | Originally Posted by Loudmouth They were told that if they ate of the tree they would die. I would say that they discovered Good and Evil through curiosity analogous to the Pandora's Box myth.
But most agree on what is or isn't moral in any given situation. Anyway, Genesis states that our knowledge of morality is independent of a relationship with God. I would agree.
There was a beginning to our universe. In fact, it is this very reason that many scientists rejected the Big Bang model when it was first proposed (by a Jesuit priest, nonetheless). The BB model does have religious overtones compared to the then popular Steady State model.
Sorry, I think you have missed the point here.
Morals are different from person to person, (some people have very dubious morals, or even an absence of them) situation to situation so the genesis account of us having morals is basically an observation - the origins of morals in this story is dubious at best.
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"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Professor Richard Dawkins.
"It ain't the parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand." - Mark Twain
"The inspiration of the bible depends on the ignorance of the person who reads it." - Robert G. Ingersoll | | |
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