The precious trial of faith to perfect one's love ....
The trial of faith is trial NOT to sin...
Quote:
James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Enduring temptation, just as Jesus and the saints , is not by sinning but by not sinning ...
This trial of faith to perfect love, cease to sin any more, is the necessary step in sanctification in life that must be completed before the return of Jesus [or one's death if sooner]
Quote:
1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
Quote:
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
The Father then is perfect, without sin , and expects the same of all who follow Jesus , giving them all knowledge [John 16:13] in spirit baptism to be able to see through satan's wily temptations and so reject ALL sin any longer in their lives...
faith in Jesus is thus faith in his commandment to love as one's lord commanding one to obey him, it is not shown by disobeying him and not loving in continued sin , Jesus cannot be lord to those who disobey him and continue to sin after baptism :-
Quote:
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Thus Jesus says that he will reject all who are still sinners by his return :-
Quote:
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
The FOUNDATION of God then is sure, certain, , it is to depart from sin, not to continue in it as most modern christians do :-
Quote:
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Romans 6:2... How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Matt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
So few follow Jesus and are taken by Jesus in this life ....Jesus says how many is a 'few' in Rev 7:3-8 and we know this is literal because Enoch says it is only tens of thousands of saints , confirmed as true by Jude :-
Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
[small point - Enoch wrote in Hebrew ,in which he uses the single word for 'ten thousand' , so this would more truly be translated as 'tens of thousands']
So the many [over twelve billion sinners that ever lived] go by the broad way through destruction in death , including all the sinners of the divided modern religion including any sect or denomination which ever had more than a few [144,000] followers !
mass religion of sinners thus has a very different role in God's plan than the few saints , Jesus confirms that he will not take anyone who has not stopped sinning by his return :-
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Those that continue to sin may call Jesus lord and invite him in, but Jesus points out that he never knew them if they do not stop before his retur, and asks why they call him lord [meaning one that one obeys] if they do not obey him :-
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
The foundation of following Jesus and naming the Christ, the strait and narrow way of the few saints is thus to depart from sinning any longer , to become all-loving in obedience to Jesus as lord, in his commandment to love, not sin.
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
It is clear then both from Jesus own words and those of the saints , that no-one who is a sinner by Jesus return can be saved then from the broad way of the many billions of sinners that ever lived , destruction in death, the wages of sin.
BUT Jesus also says that uncountably many of all nations are saved afterward :-
Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
These all went by the broad way of sin in this life , yet they are eventually saved according to Jesus ... but contrary to almost all divided modern Christian doctrine of denominations and sects !
Now the first resurrection is for the just , the saints justified by the holy spirit to stop sinning :-
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
so when are the many sinners resurrected from death and hell :-
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
the second resurrection is of the sinners , the unjustified unjust , over 12 billion sinners that ever lived, many of them never having even heard of Jesus in their life, many tragically having the briefest of lives...
Who then do the priests of God minister to and how are uncountably many of these sinners saved , hell having given them up ? What does Jesus say :-
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
So something over 12 billion sinners are resurrected after the millenium , freed from sin by death , to be ministered to by the saints and Jesus in the established kingdom of God with Jesus and the priests reigning over the many :-
Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
The many then are free from sin before death and judged by works in the kingdom where they have a perfect ministry by saints to rule and guide them into a loving righteous life of good works by which they will be judged...
Clearly then the many do not require grace, but are judged by works, so where does it say that only the few receive grace ? The answer is the new covenant of grace itself , it says explicitly that it is only with those whose ancestors broke the old covenant, and that the two rejected parts of Israel , the House of Judah ('Jews') and the lost people of the House of Israel are now forgiven...
Jesus confirms in Rev 7:3-8 that the few are indeed all descendants of Jacob , from the named tribes of Israel...
Thus the salvation of the many sinners of this world depends on the earlier salvation of a remnant few of the tribes of Israel at Jesus' return...
The few are first because they must be readied to rule and minister to billions , and God's promise handed down through the Hebrews to a remnant few [sometimes only one] in each generation is j=kept, according to Jesus' own revelation :-
Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
The OT and NT are thus indeed one truth of God ... [but the story in scripture of the reason God gives for apostate modern religion of the many sinners of this world and their sinner priesthoods is large enough for a separate thread ]
Messiah:
From another place, one seed fell here, on the edge of this hill ...
This now-tall spreading knew no surrender.
No other measured this steely purpose...
this was no war of proof...
But your sure becoming, in isolation from their gusty winds.
And now you bend ... with the gale which blows
and your needle shower scourges the bare blasted Scottish rock
and solitary pine, you know the strange happiness of your desolate home...
and I know that I shall come again ...
---------
The End of Tears? :
Youth runs with
the will to beat the odds
and did u too think
it was a game ...
and u found
a way to win?
what now your surety
when it is over.
- did u too think it was real for a while?
did u not know a kiss or two
that might have awoken the heart?
You run the old familiar
hideaways
a quick fix,
turning tricks,
to face the gore again
and forget
the meaning of the tears
your ultimate grasp fails again
as you slip unknowing into the
unfolding masterpiece once more ... once more ...
did u really need to forget in order to live
or was it illusion?
how far then will u go...
how many unheeded promises
... to yourself?
will you come home with us?
will you let us share
your pain,
for we have known it too
and now know its end?
or will you stay
mingled with crowds
a while
longer
leave till later
that quiet part of you
that you too
forgot to do.
Last edited by stranger; 2nd May 2009 at 11:57 PM.
Who are the congregation of God, the congregation of saints, the people of God ?
Psalms 149:1 ¶ Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.
2 Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.
3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.
4 For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.
5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds.
The congregation of saints are all of Israel then, the people God chose from the beginning to be His nation of priests when He finally re-unites them under the messiah, the Christ , their king ...
Exodus 19:6[REB] But, ye, shall be mine, As a kingdom of priests, And a holy nation. These, are the words, which thou shalt speak unto the sons of Israel.
But most people do not know that the congregation of God are all saints, no sinners , and are all priests of God, there is no separate congregation from priests, they are all priests of the order of Melchisedec ['Melchizedek' in OT translation] ... this is not an order of sinner priests as in today's christian churches , the divided churches of man's tradition are not the church of God at all then, none of them , religion has thus taken men away from God, not toward Him... we can tell conclusively simply from the division of religion and this scripture confirms that...
But who then is Israel ?... We know that the Jews are of israel, but what about the Israelites who never accepted Judaism, the Northern kingdom called the 'House of Israel' to whom alone the Messiah was first sent :-
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
These are not Jews, but a whole nation who have ceased to be a people as such, merged into all other nations, living as gentiles and serving other gods, never accepting Judaism, never having been Jews, nor ever accepted by Jews , even to this day ... they are then livuing as gentiles and have done so for three millenia , they do not even know that they are of Israel then , do not know they are Israelites and so inherit the promises given to Jacob just as much as the Jews :-
Deuteronomy 28:64 and Yahweh will scatter thee among all the peoples, from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth,—and thou wilt serve there other gods whom thou hast not known—thou nor thy fathers,—of wood and of stone.
The Jews then know who they are as descendants of Jacob on account of Judaism, the descendants of the House of Israel likely do not know they are of Israel at all ... they seem to be gentiles to themselves and everyone else, EXCEPT God and Jesus and the saints !
Amos 9:9 For lo! I am giving command, and will sift, throughout all the nations, the house of Israel,—as grain is sifted in a sieve, yet shall there not fall a kernel, to the earth.
Jesus himself underlines this in Rev 7:3-8, that all the firstfruit saints sealed in spirit baptism to know all truth [John 16:13] and so depart from sin [2 Timothy 2:19] as SAINTS , all these are of tribal Israel, descended from the sons of Jacob that Jesus names here ...
We can observe then that the anti-Semitism of the Roman Empire is what caused christian religion to go astray, as the bible says, to necessarily fall away [apostacy - 2 Thessalonians 2:3] ... it is a fascinating study to understand why it is stated as necessary , why Satan is given control over this world through christian religion , which explains what we can now already obserev in modern christianity .... 2Thess 2 equally explains why we have sin in this world and so why men suffer despite that God is good , but men cannot preach what is written here because it exposes that teh churches of men's traditions in christianity are not the congregation of God, but the very organisations descended from those who fed early saints to the lions in Rome for fun... and crucified St Peter ... then to claim that he gave them authority which he never even had himself, nor Jesus ever allowed any man to usurp his role as head of bhis congregation....
It is unlikely to say the least that a man being cruicified would give anything to his persecutors... and of course he never did since Jesus denied all the apostles any leader but himself :-
Mark 10:42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:[servant}
Luke 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
Matthew 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
Last edited by stranger; 16th October 2007 at 03:04 PM.
Can a soul be immortal ? ... the scripture about this misunderstanding ...
Few people seem to trouble to understand what a soul is, or they would not even consider the idea that it could be immortal , so let us perhaps see what the scripture says a soul is ...?
Here is the creation and death of a soul :-
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
The spirit enters a lifeless body to animate it as a living soul, and at death the spirit returns to God, whether good or evil was the lot of the soul in life ...
The soul then is created by the spirit in the body and ceases at death when the spirit returns to God who gave it ...
It is the spirit then which is immortal, cannot die, not the soul ... a soul is simply the life in a body animated by the spirit, life by its very nature is mortal, it ends at death... that is what death is, the end of the soul, the life, in that body...
But God can recreate the soul , even the identical soul, by His spirit being sent into another body or [as in Jesus' case for instance] ,even to re-enter the same body and give it life again , re-create the soul either in this life of in the next life ...
the soul is thus unseen in death, its continuity to resurrection of the same soul being retained by God ... the soul is said in scripture to be in the 'unseen state' , a very poorly understood and much-mistranslated meaning of 'sheol' in the OT and 'hades' in the new which are variously rendered by translators who did not understand the words as 'hell', the pit', the grave' and so on... one can see their problem, but it certainly has led over a billion men astray in their beliefs since they did not resolve the meaning before writing their translations...
life in the body then cannot be immortal , life in the body always ends ... the soul ends at death to be re-created by God sending the spirit into a new body or the same body at resurrection
BUT some men do not see death [as for instance Enoch - Heb 11:5, Gen 5:22] , it is not their soul that is immortal though, it is by translation to spirit ... thus we all must be changed to spirit in final redemption by translation,,a thing many people still confuse with resurrection to the body ...
but resurrection is always from someone that died to a living BODY , a soul restored to the BODY... to be baptised of the spirit then eventually as god has promised all will know Him, know all his truth eventually, even if not in this body, and be trialled in keeping His truth in up to three lives through even a second death as wages of continued sin in the next life in the body...
Thus redemption is by translation to the spirit, not by resurrection to the body, and men are only translated after they are considered perfect by God, that is without sin , no longer sinners :-
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
God could not have had it written in any plainer way I guess , but men still follow sinners' teachings instead of these words from the saint ... sinners will thus be rejected by Jesus at his return even though they call him 'Lord'... but he cannot be lord to anyone who disobeys him and sins any longer... thus the task of the few who find the narrow strait way of sainthood by Jesus' return is to cease from sin, not to hide behind hope in grace ... Paul explained this very common mistake in men that persists to dominate modern religion :-
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Jesus makes the point even more definitively :-
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me,all ye workers of iniquity.
It is hard , impossible for many, then , to realise that as a sinner one is wholly unacceptable to God, and yet one cannot escape sin except by death [the broad way] or by grace [the narrow way] of the new covenant with the very few [Rev 7:3-4] who find the strait narrow way of sainthood in this life [ceasing to be sinners through spirit baptism - to know all truth [John 16:13] long enough before death to be able to perfect one's love during this life]
Jesus did not provide a licence to continue in sin and never said there was hope for sinners in this life who do not depart from sin before his return... indeed the scripture says that all are sinners [Jesus excepted, it is understood , so there is no 'original sin' else Jesus would have been a sinner too] ,but that only the FEW find the narrow way in this life...
Thus only few are given grace in this life, only few are baptised to know all truth to be ABLE to defeat Satan's wiles and so be redeemed at Jesus' return...
The hard truth of scripture is then that God never intended to save the many first, but only the few... and that the many are saved AFTERWARD as Jesus states explicitly in Rev 7:9-10
The many that go through death thus go through death to FREE them from sin, that is why death is the wages of sin, but the wages are paid in death, after resurrection one is free from sin to be able to live as a saint in the kingdom of God, and St Peter states that men WILL live righteous lives in the new earth, and so be saved in the same way as the few are in this earth , as saints perfected in love but much later than the few :-
Romans 6:7 [KJV] For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Romans 6:7 [REB]For, he that hath died, hath become righteously acquitted from his sin.
2 Peter 3:13 [KJV] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2 Peter 3:13 [REB] But, new heavens, and a new earth, according to his promise, are we expecting, wherein, righteousness, is to dwell.
As God explains in Ezek 18:21, if one turns to righteousness one is saved from death, even from a second death if one turns to righteousness in the new earth kingdom come to all men...
So contrary to modern popular religion, the bible shows that only few are saved at Jesus return, most are saved after death and the second resurrection, not in this life at all ...
The soul is not immortal, it is simply resurrected up to two times from death to free it from sin ... after two deaths then the soul is not allowed any more death though, it has not even then become immortal because God requires that it be redeemed to spirit even from the final trial of faith, the lake of His 'fire' , His truth rained down on men by simply removing the meek and mild on whom the evil prey in this world ... without easy prey , the evil prey only on each other and evil becomes a continual loss, not a benefit ... God's method is a true poetic justice then , a loving way to convince all men to sue for His enduring mercy once they see at last that evil doesn't really work at all., that sin doesn't benefit anyone despite its seeming attractions purveyed by Satan to the last [for which purpose God allows his release , to show that He is not censoring Satan's view, but that it really does fail in the end...
Thus God resolves all creation to spirit in FINITE time , there is no infinity of time and no eternal suffering, as Jesus states explicitly, no more tears beyond a certain time ...
All created beings then accept the dominion of Jesus ,the Lamb of God, in the end , Jesus prophesies this himself in revelation from God :-
Revelation 5:13 [REB] And, every created thing which was in heaven, and upon the earth, and under the earth, and upon the sea, and, all the things in them, heard I, saying—Unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb, be the blessing, and the honour, and the glory, and the dominion, unto the ages of ages!
It is simply that God's plan is in these three phases that men do not understand that all men will accept Jesus as Lord in the end , so many think it is all over in this life, ignoring that scripture says very few will find the strait narrow way now , but many are saved afterward [Rev 7:9-10]
The soul is mortal by definition of what it is, the life in a body cannot be immortal ... the spirit is however immortal and guarantees from zero to two resurrections of the soul until the soul is perfected and accepts God's truth through Jesus Christ ...
Last edited by stranger; 24th October 2007 at 09:32 AM.
Ecclesiastes 1:14 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.
Revelation 5:13 And, every created thing which was in heaven, and upon the earth, and under the earth, and upon the sea, and, all the things in them, heard I, saying—Unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb, be the blessing, and the honour, and the glory, and the dominion, unto the ages of ages!
In deepest depression, where I could not even find a reason to move to feed myself, the desire for the love absent from this world in all but very few [the 144,000 of Rev 7:3-8] remained, it would not desert me...
That then is my God, the thing I respect and believe in , what I am...
Sadly I have made many mistakes following the propaganda of Satan that unlovingness of a sinful world is 'progress' ... I ask and look at progress and see it is progress toward unhappiness and death , not toward world love and equality and sharing of all that God has given us ...
Thus this world is a seriously empty and bad place that justifies its being allowed by god to destroy itself to prove He is right, that this way s no alternative to love, sharing, equality ...
So this world seems empty unless one can find one in a million who are saints, who do love all men because they know all will be redeemed from insane slavery to the ways of this world...
Depressed people then are not so much ill as realistic about this insane world where most follow evil without even bothering to question it ,let alone refusing to go along with the masses committed to it... but in depression the truth emerges that we have hope in love because it does work in the kingdom of God because it is the norm there ... those depressed then simply bear witness to what most people are in denial of, that this world is truly sick with evil at its root , a corrupted money system, unjust scales in our very value system
The point then to understand is that God requires the proof that no other way than love works, thus this earth is sacrificed to those ways going wrong..
2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
The hope then is based in love, and the strength of saints is to be able to love, not sin, even in this earth... one has to say that is not easy to do, but it is easier on the heart, easier on the conscience, and God always recognises when someone overcomes doing the sin which others do as a matter of course...
there is then more than hope, there is a sureness in that God will not leave anyone, the desire to love and be loved remains even in this evil time... a basis of faith then , faith in love as God :-
1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Last edited by stranger; 24th October 2007 at 09:27 AM.
Why is the scripture far better than going to church?
Cos' the scripture is written by saints and prophets, at least originally it was, but the churches are full of sinners with nay a saint or prophet in sight ....
Quote:
2 Timothy 3:16 Every scripture, is God-breathed, and profitable—unto teaching, unto conviction, unto correction, unto the discipline that is in righteousness,—
It seems then to make more sense to listen to what Jesus and the saints and prophets of God have written than to listen to modern sinners preaching divided doctrines and things which just aren't in scripture or directly conflict with scripture ...
The point though is that one has to read ALL the scripture to get the unique understanding promised by God in His word :-
Quote:
2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Last edited by stranger; 27th October 2007 at 09:58 AM.
Jesus in fact says that he was sent , not to the Jews, but to the lost House of Israel, the scattered Northern kingdom who rejected Judaism and worshipped idols ,even after they were scattered and became lost as a people amongst the gentiles [unlike the Jews who were held together as a people by Judaism:-
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Deuteronomy 28:64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.
One will not find any Jews worshipping idols of wood and stone , so Israel is still a divided nation, the Messiah was sent to unite them but not in THIS world :-
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:
Thus most Jews and Christians and Muslims all have it wrong according to the scriptures ... Jesus was sent to begin gathering the House of Israel's descendants out from amidst the gentiles, where they have been living as gentiles for three millenia ...
It is these few gathered by Jesus and the apostles and their disciples in turn, who will make the Jews jealous with knowledge of the Messiah the Jews mostly still await
Deuteronomy 32:21 ... I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
Again we may note in the new covenant of grace that says that it is ONLY with those whose fathers broke the old covenant [Heb 8:8-12], that it is with both the Jews [House of Judah] and this lost nation, the House of Israel, living as gentiles for so long that they likely believe they are gentiles , and so do the Jews !
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
Note that only the House of Israel fits this description, and they are forgiven by the new covenant with Israel...
So why does God take only the remnant few of these two divided kingdoms when Jesus returns? [Rev 7:3-8 confirms that only those of Israel are taken first, but 144,000 is just a tiny remnant , not the whole of Israel]
The answer was revealed long ago to Moses by God , God decided to show His power by naming who would be His priests when His kingdom is established on earth for all men [but not this earth, as we have seen above] and the one's He happened to name are Israel :-
Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
The irony of course is that Jews and Christians and Muslims all have respect for Moses as a prophet, yet this prophecy of God goes ignored by almost all men even today ... Israel has NEVER YET been a nation of priests , never yet been united under one king since it was divided on religious grounds, the Jews rejecting Ephraim and the House of Israel and holding fast to Judaism whilst these worshippers of pagan gods were scattered by God ...
Ezekiel 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
The gospel of the kingdom and of the Christ is thus this ancient prophecy of a king who will unite Israel again into a nation of priests...
BUT the nation of priests is only a priesthood in order to serve, and those they serve are the masses of the gentiles [Rev 7:9-10]... thus the many are redeemed through the redemption of Israel FIRST as a perfect ministry by the whole nation God chose from the beginning and states in His new covenant of grace with only them [Jer 31:31-34]
Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Thus ALL the Jewish, Moslem, and Christian sinners of THIS world will be ministered to by a perfected Israel in the next life and be redeemed to God there, not at Jesus' return
Many of Israel died sinners in disbelief , they too cannot be redeemed until after the second resurrection because they died sinners, they cannot be translated to spirit because they did not perfect their love in this life, so they will be amongst the first redeemed in the new earth kingdom of God since God requires all Israel as priests eventually, takes only a few to begin establishing the kingdom at Jesus' return
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Thus God does not require more than His few .who find the narrow strait way ,saved in this earth , the kingdom is not even ready for the whole of Israel until after the second resurrection, more than a thousand years from now ...
Last edited by stranger; 24th October 2007 at 09:23 AM.
Originally Posted by koban4max If I told you that God and his little children denied me...does that make you happy?
My friend,
God's 'little children' could not deny you except by sinning, not loving, so it was your mistake to confuse those sinners playing at being saints with the children of God.... do you really think they were obeying Jesus and being loving?
Rather be thankful that they did not suck you into their unloving ways which are unacceptable to God...
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
The saint is not kidding around here, these folks you mistook fro children of God , did you not see their iniquity against you and so see they were thus not children of God, but false apostels which abound in this world run by Satan, even its religion ?
2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Be glad then that God spared you getting involved with them any longer...
As for being rejected by God, yes, it is unbearable and feels like death has touched one because of one's irremovable sin, ... and yes , I have been rejected by God [quite rightly of course] when I foolishly called upon His name still a sinner...
But I did not understand then, and the surprise is that He only nearly killed me for my impudence ... why then did I survive when so many have been killed outright ? Perhaps just to be able to relate this to you now? perhaps to be able to comfort the billion and more christian sinners when Jesus rejects them at his return, just as he has said he will reject all sinners, whether they call him lord or not, simply because they are still sinners and need death to free them from sin even before they begin 'baptism of fire', the trial of faith in love that perfects the love of saints...
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
You will notice in modern churches, full of sinners taught by sinners , that they do not teach this that John the baptist spoke of, that after baptism with water and the spirit comes baptism of fire, precious trial of faith by resisting all temptation Satan can throw at one, ceasing from all sin...
One can see how it would not be a popular teaching , so they leave it out very deliberately ... are they children of God then? I trow not so ...
Be thankful that sinners reject you because that is an honour normally reserved for future saints ... Be thankful too if God rejects you for sin, because He is only doing what He must do, judge whether you are perfect in love yet or need further convincing in the world that sin doesn't work and only perfect love will make us acceptable to Him [though again, one need not become perfect in this life, there is a new life waiting after resurrection ,and death frees one from the sin in this life :-
Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Is death the answer then to this evil world, suicide ? I once thought so because I can hardly bear this palce because of endless sin that men do not even see as sin any more because it is so commonplace...
But having been spued back into the world, having failed to kill myself, i see now that there is a point in our empty lives, the point is that WE desire to love and be loved ... thus we desire God and worship Him in spirit ... it is enough to give us a possibility of being allowed to be freed of sin in this life through spirit baptism to know all truth [and so defeat all Satan's temptations to sin, be separated from the world and simply love as the saints do]
That possibility makes life worthwhile, but there is more too, \God requires that we know why sin is wrong, that we see it tear our civilisation to shreds in the end ... we cannot be the 'eyes of God' if we are dead, nor can we perfect our love if we are dead... and when one dies , one is only resurrected back to the body, nothing is solved except that one is freed from sin and given all truth by God Himself at last , as promised to all men eventually -Joel 2:28...
Life then takes on a new meaning once one has learned to hate it
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Again you will not hear it in church, but Jesus' says rather clearly hear that ALL who follow him will come to hate life in this world....
Do not then feel bad about being blessed with hatred of this life, rather be glad that one could not love life and thus has an opportunity perhaps to follow Jesus in perfection of love, ceasing from sin, being at one with one's own heart of love ....
Hey, and PM me if you do not want to talk in public about some things...
May you find peace in knowing that you desire to love,
realising it is faith in love, in God,
and thus is beyond this evil world...
1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Last edited by stranger; 24th October 2007 at 09:20 AM.
Darkness , then light, the two earths... but there are three heavens...
So here is the place where St Paul identifies the paradise of God with the third heaven ... but you really should have read this for yourself , else you will come back to telling me that I said it, whereas it is the scripture that says it, not me :-
2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven. ...4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Again we can see that paradise is the same as the 'garden' in another passage because both contai the access to the tree of life [immortality] :-
Revelation 2:7 ... To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Genesis 2:9 ... the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Thus we find Adam is TAKEN to the 'garden' , it is not on earth , but is the third heaven, the final rest in the spirit pictured in holy sabbath of God, the sign set upon Israel for all time , because God has said they will be the first redeemed, his holy priesthood of kings, a holy nation of priests , a kingdom of priests... but very clearly they have never been so in this earth to date, and vet clearly Jesus is not yet king [Messiah, Christ] of all Israel yet, many Jews for instance do not accept him as their king yet ...
But Jesus never said his kingdom is of THIS earth, the king-priests will rule on earth [Revelation 5:10] but not this earth :-
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:
Thus the kingdom of God here is ONLY in the hearts and minds of the very few saints alive at any one time here [perhaps on average just some two thousand of the 144,000 can be alive at any one time as God will not allow them to all be killed off, despite the many attempts to do so by Satan throughout history since Jesus' death , including the total destruction of the seven holy churches of God , long in ruins , never again holding a congregation of saints]
Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
The kingdom then is established by means of first redeeming a remnant of Israel , then all Israel [ since many of Israel also died sinners and cannot live until the resurrection of the unjust, the second resurrection]
Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Jacob is the original name of Israel, God renamed him when He placed His name upon him as the father of the holy nation of royal priests destined , predestinated, elected, chosen, for His kingdom ...
not by merit though, they were/are all sinners until God baptises them to know all his truth [John 16:13] and so be able to defeat Satan in temptation and thus cease from all sin... and God's baptism is thus by grace, before repentance , in this earth, but only of the few He requires as priests and kings now,... the firstfruits , the few who find the narrow strait way , the 144,000 saints
Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints
Note the new covenant is only with yet-divided Israel, and that the Jews are only one of the Houses [kingdoms] of divided Israel, the House of Israel has lived for three millenia amongst gentiles, living as gentiles, they were scattered by God amongst all nations but did not have Judaism to hold them together as a scattered people, they lost their identity and continued worshipping idols, unlike the Jews
Thus even by the time of Jesus , the House of Israel already thought of themselves as gentiles and were certainly rejected by the Jews... but Jesus says that he was sent ONLY to them , amongst the gentile nations...
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Again he sends his disciples to the lost House of Israel, not to the Jews , not to the masses of the gentiles.... only Paul has the task given him of explaining about Israel to the gentiles... but the Romans decided they would rather destroy the old religion of the Hebrew saints and take the name of 'christianity' for their own paganised version, invent sinner priests in place of the saints and Jesus , and control the otherwise dangerous spread of the religion in order to keep control of the people by means of force of arms and the law of the pagan emperor through making non-Hebrew christianity the norm in the world.... it worked, just as Jesus said it would, except in the few saints, many of whom died, fed to lions to amuse the crowds of Romans, or crucified , like St Peter was in Rome [who then pretended that he gave them powers he never even had]
thus the religion of this earth was given into Satan's hands by God , except for the few whom God retains as His by means of grace, not merit, simply because He has said who will be His priests, put His very name on the line that Israel will be the first redeemed so that they can minister to the billions redeemed in the kingdom come on the new earth...
But men in the new earth kingdom still have to follow Jesus, after being freed from sin in death and the second resurrection they still require spirit baptism and perfection of their love in trial ...
Thus Satan is also released at the second resurrection [Revelation 20:3] to tempt the nations and the great battle of Armageddon ensues because he still decieves many:-
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
God however continues the steady irreversible removal of men from Satan's grasp , men stream into New Jerusalem to become saints and be redeemed at judgement day ...
and so the new earth kingdom is the the resounding success in redemption that God has planned for , the many of Rev 7:9-10 are saved simply through god's freeing them from sin in death at or before the end of this world, through destruction they are free of sin and God promises them baptism of the spirit [Joel 2:28] to be able to resist Satan's temptations once they are alive again to receive it ...
and men thus live righteously in the new earth, countless many being redeemed at judgement day by works, not grace as in this earth (though grace causes works of course, else faith is dead] :-
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
There is much more of course in scripture, I cannot present it all here ... obviously the scripture is for reading with God, I can perhaps only 'whet the appetite' to get to reading and praying and meditating instead of finding other things to do in this world which are but vanity :-
Ecclesiastes 2:17 Therefore I hated life; because the work that is wrought under the sun is grievous unto me: for all is vanity and vexation of spirit.
Reading scripture, praying and meditating, enjoying the blessings of holy sabbath [from sunset to sunset in Jerusalem, absolute time, not the 'time' men changed things to for sinners] , it becomes a pleasure because one hates the world ... whereas for sinners they treat 'religion' as a necessary chore , little realising that religion of sinners cannot save anyone from anything except from the truth of God and from becoming loving, ceasing from sin...
The third heaven is timeless immortality of the spirit, the final rest with God as one being, one life immortal, but the two earths are real physical earths in which men have bodies moved by their spirit to do good or evil... just as God requires for His purpose in creating them
Lamentations 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
Men will not understand how God issues evil from his mouth though , so how could they understand that the first earth is the darkness of night whereas the second earth is the light of day, still less that darkness and light BOTH serve God's purpose ad are alike to Him for that reason, although completely opposite in nature :-
Psalms 139:12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
Last edited by stranger; 27th October 2007 at 09:57 AM.
Why is agnostic atheism more 'honest' than modern christianity of sinners?
The God of love , by defnition, cannot be follwed by those who remain sinners
Sin is simply not loving ! Calling sin 'chsritian' does not make it loving ... the emperor has no clothes , no fine white linen, and a billion people cannot see that he is naked ...
God 'proved' Himself to me without a Bible and the bible says that He will eventually prove Himself as love to everyone, so this is not the problem here ...
The problem is 'christianity' and all creedal religion that has the [blasphemous] presumption that it knows God without even understanding the scripture uniquely [as it claims to have no valid private interpretation]
The irony of the bible in relation to christianity is that Jesus prophesies the falling away of religion , states explicitly that he only came to get to the House of Israel [whom christians mostly do not know what this is because it is 'not a people' any longer , just a nation of dispersed Israelites who were and still are rejected by most Jews , who worship idols ,and who never ever accepted Judaism or modern christianity of sinners...
the final crunch for the sinner priests of christianity comes when Jesus does exactly what he says he will do and rejects [albeit not for all time] all who are still sinners by his return... just as Israel were rejected but now are accepted by God under a new covenant with them [but it is not with anyone else , why would people presume a contract is with them if it says it is with someone else ??? ]
Any way, for me God is seen in love , and since my own love is flawed I do not see God that clearly yet , but i know that even in deepest depression and through attempted suicide , when everything in life seemed worthless and empty , as Solomon stated ... even there the desire to love and be loved never left me, I found that it is 'what I am' , all that is left when all the 'persona' is stripped away and one is naked beyond even 'self' ...
One can deny the desire to love, much as the brain seems capable of denying almost anything , even what is written in black and white before one's eyes, but one cannot silence the desire to love completely, it just keeps up it's gentle insistence that our normal ways in this world are unloving, that we are not doing what we 'are'...
This then is how I came to know my god, the thing I respect and worship, it manifests to me as the desire to bebeyond what I manifest as a way of life and be perfectly loving, something i fail at doing repeatedly, but value more than life itself
This I discovered much later in life is in fact the very God Jesus talks about, the God that I rejected as a teenager because of christianity, not realising that religion is not where God resides at all ...
The difference between the saints and prophets of God and the sinner priests of modern religion is that the saints are given all truth by God [John 16:13 - sorry I cannot prove this , it's just a reference] that enables them to love because they can then defeat all wily temptations to be unloving in the world [sin] ...
The irony then for me is that an atheist may be far more loving than many so-called 'christians' who remain sinners and vainly hope that Jesus will stop them receiving the consequences of their unloving ways ... the Bible does not say he will, it says he will reject them and they will get another opportunity later to learn that sin is unlovingness and unacceptable to the loving god of scripture... even if they invent a god of modern christianity that cares not about sin so long as people merely say they will believe in him, but in fact they don't believe in God because they do not stop being unloving, but continue as sinners , become hypocrites because they then turn around and condemn others for just the same unlovingness that they continue doing themselves ... It still amazes me that they think their sin is acceptable whereas others' sin is unacceptable and worthy of 'eternal torment' or 'eternal separation from god' or some such unloving supposed end [created by poor translation?]with no mercy from the god they will then say has mercy forever ... religion then has become a disease of mind , it is denial run amock because we cannot live with the fact that we are sinners and cannot free ourselves from it ... we want out of sin and into love, but we find it impossible to give up our unloving ways completely because they are by now institutional in our very societies :-
a very entertaining animation indeed, making the very serious point about the evil distortion of values at the very root of our civilisation that must soon bear its inevitable consequence severely damaging us all because it fails so suddenly and most people do not even know it is there :- http://tinyurl.com/2uoexg
Again then, the God of scripture actually does not expect men to believe Him now , quite the opposite, Jesus prophesies that men will believe Satan , almost all the world will follow sin AGAINST their hearts of love... the God of scripture is then not the god of modern christianity , and few realise this despite the witness in the book of Jesus himself.... that makes the Bible unique, it states that those who presume they are following it, Jews, Christians, even some Muslims to some extent, do not do so, but only those who love consistently, who cease to sin before death and are trialled in that faith, do actually follow Jesus and the God of scripture...
The ironies run even deeper ... God promises that all men will know all truth FROM HIM ... that all His priests will be saints... so where does that leave sinners who dress up as priests and teach other sinners in this world? They will all be taught one day by god, but oh the pain of realising what they did to themselves and others in this life [fr many of them are already dead of course, never having yet received all truth as promised by Jesus to all that really follow him]
Thus , as many of my atheist friends know, not believing in the 'god of christianity' is a blessing ... but in throwing out the false god, one can very easily miss out on the scripture which talks about the true God of love...the one in our hearts which we find so hard to obey , the desire to love that goes unanswered so often because of the world... yet Jesus showed that love can be done in the world perfectly, it just takes waiting for the faith in it to COME FROM GOD... faith in love is given by God... faith in what sinners preach is a leap of faith into hypocrisy ... it is no wonder then that men are confused by religion that is not about the God of love, and by our own denial of what we most desire because of the true God of love witnessed in us all... we might say we are made that way, and scripture even explains why we have to do without knowing God, knowing all his truth, most of us for our whole lives in this earth.... but that is another story which I attempt to address elsewhere, ...
Is it then reasonable for God to ask men to wait a whole lifetime to be able to acknowledge the truth within us that we desire to be love and to be loved ... it matters not whether we think it is reasonable or not, but God does proffer the explanation i scripture for those who can see through religion enough to find it there ... it seems clear few will look even, because those of modern religion believe they know the scripture [although it is easy to prove that almost all do not] and those who see through apostate christianity do not then turn to reading scripture, religion then is an awesome mask over people seeing what scripture really says ... clearly one cannot take that from my words, one has to prove it by reading the scripture like a little child, without presuming one knows what it says beforehand because some sinner told you what was there ... yet if someone did not say would one ever even look and see the mistakes so many have made in dividing religion that is supposed to be , but obviously isn't, about the ONE God ?
Last edited by stranger; 26th October 2007 at 08:49 AM.
The precious trial of faith to perfect one's love .... 
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