Home | Be a Christian | Devotionals | Join Us! | Forums | Rules | F.A.Q.


Go Back   Christian Forums > Society > Society > Ethics & Morality > Archived - Ethics & Morality
Register BlogsPrayersJobsArcade Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Archived - Ethics & Morality Archived threads from Ethics & Morality

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 18th September 2007, 02:37 PM
Phred's Avatar
Junior Mint

Gender: Male Married Faith: Atheist Country: United States Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 12th August 2003
Posts: 3,648
Blessings: 44,364
My Mood Cynical
Reps: 716,815,664 (power: 716,825)
Phred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond repute
Phred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by NavyGuy7 View Post
Please, consider the facts before making such accusations like "Abortion isn't murder".
I have. It isn't.
__________________
"The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others, unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives. ..." - Barry Goldwater
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!

  #22  
Old 18th September 2007, 02:40 PM
Phred's Avatar
Junior Mint

Gender: Male Married Faith: Atheist Country: United States Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 12th August 2003
Posts: 3,648
Blessings: 44,364
My Mood Cynical
Reps: 716,815,664 (power: 716,825)
Phred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond repute
Phred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond repute
To answer the OP I wouldn't give that dish a second thought as I ran out the door with the child.
__________________
"The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others, unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives. ..." - Barry Goldwater
  #23  
Old 18th September 2007, 02:55 PM
michabo's Avatar
reason, evidence

35 Gender: Male Faith: Atheist Country: Canada Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 11th November 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 11,511
Blessings: 40,686
Reps: 27,518 (power: 45)
michabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to behold
michabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to behold
Originally Posted by NavyGuy7 View Post
This is a liberal question. And who are you to say I cannot take both? LOL. Besides, this is very poorly constructed. Everyone would save the baby, most likely, because we know that it is a baby. We probably wouldn't have a clue as to what was in the petri dish, or even if we recognized them as embryos, we would not know whether they were fertilized or not. We would assume they are unfertilized, making them in effect not embryos but eggs, since they were all left out like that in the first place.
That's a lot of moaning and complaining. I think the OP was pretty clear, you knew that it was a choice between fertilized embryos and an infant.

Shall I take it that you took the infant?

How many embryos would you need before you would chose their "lives" over the life of an infant?

1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

2. kill intentionally and with premeditation

Since the embryo is alive inside the mother, it can be killed. And those doing abortions have "premeditated" the whole procedure. So technically, it can be said to be "murder".
Just like eating meat is murder, huh?

If you have to twist the term that strongly to make your case, it doesn't say much about your position.
__________________
Jesus has a very special love for you. As for me, the silence and emptiness is so great that I look and do not see, listen and do not hear.

I am told God loves me, and yet the reality of the darkness and coldness and emptiness is so great that nothing touches my soul. - Mother Teresa
  #24  
Old 18th September 2007, 02:55 PM
michabo's Avatar
reason, evidence

35 Gender: Male Faith: Atheist Country: Canada Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 11th November 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 11,511
Blessings: 40,686
Reps: 27,518 (power: 45)
michabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to behold
michabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to behold
Originally Posted by WatersMoon110 View Post
To answer the OP, I would try to save both the Petri Dish and the Infant. If that wasn't possible, I would, of course, save the infant. Viable life before potential life.
Before any potential life, no matter how numerous?

Are you saying that you agree that embryos are just "potential" life but not actual life?
__________________
Jesus has a very special love for you. As for me, the silence and emptiness is so great that I look and do not see, listen and do not hear.

I am told God loves me, and yet the reality of the darkness and coldness and emptiness is so great that nothing touches my soul. - Mother Teresa
  #25  
Old 18th September 2007, 03:15 PM
WatersMoon110's Avatar
To See with Eyes Unclouded by Hate

27 Gender: Female Married Faith: Christian-Seeker Party: US-Libertarian Country: United States Member For 2 Years Steward
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 31st May 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,685
Blessings: 44,547
My Mood Praying
Reps: 154,952,829 (power: 154,959)
WatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond repute
WatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by michabo View Post
Before any potential life, no matter how numerous?

Are you saying that you agree that embryos are just "potential" life but not actual life?
I should have been more clear. Human embryos are, more definitely alive, as are the sex cells that formed them. But they can only keep living in specific environments, mainly the uterus. These (hypothetical) embryos in questions are not in the womb, and so aren't going to be growing into infants anytime soon. Thus, I would consider them to be "potential" human lives.

My opinion on this (save both infant and embryos if possible, just infant if not) would not be changed if it were one embryo or one thousand or one billion. In all cases, the born, breathing infant comes first, if I cannot save both it and the embryos.

Likewise I would run back into a burning building to save an infant, but not a container of living human embryos.
  #26  
Old 18th September 2007, 03:17 PM
Senior Veteran

Gender: Male Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 19th April 2004
Posts: 3,357
Blessings: 28,692
Reps: 831,305,512,503 (power: 831,305,521)
levi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond repute
levi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond reputelevi501 has a reputation beyond repute
I'd kick over the petri dish as I ran out the door with the child.
That way no one wasted time considering the petri dish when they could be looking for other infants.
  #27  
Old 18th September 2007, 03:17 PM
michabo's Avatar
reason, evidence

35 Gender: Male Faith: Atheist Country: Canada Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 11th November 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 11,511
Blessings: 40,686
Reps: 27,518 (power: 45)
michabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to behold
michabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to beholdmichabo is a splendid one to behold
Originally Posted by WatersMoon110 View Post
Likewise I would run back into a burning building to save an infant, but not a container of living human embryos.
Fair enough, thanks.
__________________
Jesus has a very special love for you. As for me, the silence and emptiness is so great that I look and do not see, listen and do not hear.

I am told God loves me, and yet the reality of the darkness and coldness and emptiness is so great that nothing touches my soul. - Mother Teresa
  #28  
Old 18th September 2007, 03:39 PM
rebelEnigma's Avatar
our God is a consuming Fire

Gender: Male Faith: Christian Party: US-Libertarian Country: United States Member For 4 Years Watchman
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 15th September 2005
Posts: 1,242
Blessings: 40,663
My Mood Pensive
Reps: 55,795 (power: 61)
rebelEnigma is a splendid one to beholdrebelEnigma is a splendid one to beholdrebelEnigma is a splendid one to beholdrebelEnigma is a splendid one to beholdrebelEnigma is a splendid one to beholdrebelEnigma is a splendid one to behold
rebelEnigma is a splendid one to beholdrebelEnigma is a splendid one to beholdrebelEnigma is a splendid one to beholdrebelEnigma is a splendid one to beholdrebelEnigma is a splendid one to beholdrebelEnigma is a splendid one to beholdrebelEnigma is a splendid one to beholdrebelEnigma is a splendid one to beholdrebelEnigma is a splendid one to beholdrebelEnigma is a splendid one to beholdrebelEnigma is a splendid one to behold
You are visiting a fertility clinic when an intense fire breaks out. You must flee the building immediately or be killed. In the room with you is a single newborn infant and a dish containing 40 fertilized embryos. You can save one or the other, but not both.

Which do you save?
Both. There's no reason why I can't save both unless the baby weighs sixty pounds or the dish is the size of a table.
__________________
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night: [Exodus 13:21]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  #29  
Old 18th September 2007, 03:54 PM
WatersMoon110's Avatar
To See with Eyes Unclouded by Hate

27 Gender: Female Married Faith: Christian-Seeker Party: US-Libertarian Country: United States Member For 2 Years Steward
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 31st May 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,685
Blessings: 44,547
My Mood Praying
Reps: 154,952,829 (power: 154,959)
WatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond repute
WatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond reputeWatersMoon110 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by rebelEnigma View Post
Both. There's no reason why I can't save both unless the baby weighs sixty pounds or the dish is the size of a table.
The reason why you can't save both is that the nature of this thought experiment is that you have to pick one.

Plus, I believe for the embryos to not be dead, they would have to be in some bulky freezer of some sort, at least that is what television has taught me. *wink* Thus it might be impossible to carry both at once.

If you could only carry one, which would you go for?
  #30  
Old 18th September 2007, 04:00 PM
Phred's Avatar
Junior Mint

Gender: Male Married Faith: Atheist Country: United States Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 12th August 2003
Posts: 3,648
Blessings: 44,364
My Mood Cynical
Reps: 716,815,664 (power: 716,825)
Phred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond repute
Phred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond reputePhred has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by rebelEnigma View Post
Both. There's no reason why I can't save both unless the baby weighs sixty pounds or the dish is the size of a table.
Now that you've got it outside how do you keep them alive? Just keep running to the nearest fertility clinic. Oh, wait, you're holding a crying infant. Oh dear, oh dear.

Seriously... why do you lie about things like this?
__________________
"The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others, unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives. ..." - Barry Goldwater
 


Return to Archived - Ethics & Morality

Thread Tools
Display Modes


 
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:25 PM.


vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007 - 2008, PixelFX Studios