If you know the truth the truth will set you free.
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Join Date: 17th July 2006
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Originally Posted by SimplyMe
I'm not really too worried about if you believe I am a Christian, I'm only worried about my relationships with Christ and what He believes. Remember, the Pharisees doubted the religion of Christ because He did not follow what they read into Scripture.
What makes you believe that homosexuality is caused by "the sinful environment one grew up in"? The fact is that groups like NARTH and the authors of the book claim that the causes of homosexuality are far more complex and include a biological component. As an example, from the Institute for the Study of Sexual Identity at Regent University, of which Mark Yarhouse (one of the authors) is the Director, explains "research indicates that the causes of same-sex attraction and a homosexual orientation are complex, influenced by a variety of contributing factors."
And, just for comparison, according to NARTH (an ex-gay advocacy group), "NARTH agrees with the American Psychological Association that "biological, psychological and social factors" shape sexual identity at an early age for most people."
Oh, but there is a problem. You see, NARTH represents a worldly view of homosexuality, which does not work in God's eyes, therefore it does not work in my eyes either. Give me a biblical view of homosexuality and then I will be sure to listen.
Their science, like any science needs to be scrutinized.
Could be possibly refrain from sullying the good name of Science by using it to refer to the ravings of these mentally derranged imbeciles.
__________________
"Each week millions and millions of upper-middle class Americans put on expensive dress clothes and load themselves into SUV's and drive past homeless shelters, orphanages, prisons, missions and halfway houses on their way to a very expensive and nice church where somebody tells them how to be more like Jesus."
"The root of socialism is democracy, and only a society that is truly democratic could also become truly socialist."--Tony Benn
Landmark Study: Change for Homosexuals is Possible
Posted on Sep 14, 2007 | by Michael Foust
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (BP)--In what some are calling groundbreaking research, a new four-year study concludes it is possible for homosexuals to change their physical attractions and become heterosexual through the help of Christian ministries.
The data was released Sept. 13 at a news conference in Nashville, Tenn., and will be published in the forthcoming book, "Ex-Gays?" (InterVarsity Press) by psychologists Stanton L. Jones and Mark A. Yarhouse. Thirty-eight percent of the subjects followed in the study said they had successfully left homosexuality, while an additional 29 percent said they had had only modest successes but were committed to keep trying. In another significant finding, Jones and Yarhouse said attempts at conversions do not appear to be psychologically harmful.
Experts in the field call it the first scientific study performed on a sample of individuals undergoing Christian counseling, monitoring their successes and failures from the beginning. A follow-up study is being conducted and will be released in the future.
"These findings contradict directly the commonly expressed views of the mental health establishment that change in sexual orientation is impossible, and that if you attempt to change it's highly likely to produce harm for those who make such an attempt," Jones, professor of psychology at Wheaton College in Illinois, said at the news conference.
So why is it being released as a book, and not a peer-reviewed scientific study?
From what I read, this has all the hallmarks of every other gay-conversion study that didn't stand up to scrutiny.
__________________ "WHEREAS, Healthcare Decisions Day is designed to raise public awareness of the need to plan ahead for healthcare decisions, related to end of life care and medical decision-making whenever patients are unable to speak for themselves and to encourage the specific use of advance directives to communicate these important healthcare decisions."
Alaska Statue 13.52, signed by Governor Sarah Palin
"...my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care."
Oh, but there is a problem. You see, NARTH represents a worldly view of homosexuality, which does not work in God's eyes, therefore it does not work in my eyes either. Give me a biblical view of homosexuality and then I will be sure to listen.
I'm amazed at the people here recently trying to claim that NARTH presents some type of liberal viewpoint. In this case, however, I also gave you a link to a similar claim about homosexuality from the Institute for the Study of Sexual Identity at Regent University -- I don't think that can be confused with a "worldly" view.
__________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb.
-- Unknown
If your first sexual experience had been with a man, I bet you would not have become a homosexual.
Look--it's the fat, unattractive drunk guy with penis insecurity yelling "You just need a good seein to, come ere luv" at lesbian couples.
How's that working out for you?
__________________
"Each week millions and millions of upper-middle class Americans put on expensive dress clothes and load themselves into SUV's and drive past homeless shelters, orphanages, prisons, missions and halfway houses on their way to a very expensive and nice church where somebody tells them how to be more like Jesus."
"The root of socialism is democracy, and only a society that is truly democratic could also become truly socialist."--Tony Benn
Umm, are we having a reading comprehension problem here? I basically said up to and including sexual abuse, but it does not have to be sexual abuse.
Oh, so you say never had a sexual experience until you met your girlfriend? In that case, logic dictates that it must have been your girlfriend that lured you into homosexuality. If your first sexual experience had been with a man, I bet you would not have become a homosexual.
For Heaven's sake, cut the conspiracy theories. Was it at your first sexual experience that you realized you were straight? Or did you know that you were attracted to women before that?
I'm gay and I've never had any sexual experience. People are born gay. My father is a Bible-thumping fundamental Christian who has made me go to church two days a week all my life. I've always been a straight-A student, 12th in a class of 600. I've never done drugs or anything of the sort.
How have I been "living in sin"? What's your theory for me?
Originally Posted by MrrrrrNiceGuy
It's not natural. Just read the above.
1) Computers aren't natural either.
2) There are plenty of examples of homosexuality in nature.
3) Just because it's unnatural, doesn't make it wrong.
4) Your theory kind of falls apart with the fact that there are physiological differences between gay and straight men.
Seriously, when are you going to stop using this PRATT?
__________________ "I do not feel obliged to believe that the god who endowed us with logic and reason intended us to forgo their use." -Galileo Galilei
I can make up data and have a special interest press publish it in a book and claim it is a “landmark study” too. That doesn’t mean it is.
If the researchers were so very proud of their work, so sure of their findings why didn’t they submit their research to be published in a legitimate scientific journal? I think we all know the reasons why.
Note the typical use of meaningless words and phrases here: “successfully left homosexuality” note that they are not saying I was a homosexual (Kinsey scale 6) and am now a heterosexual (Kinsey scale 0). I’m willing to bet not one person in this “study” made such a claim
“modest successes” what the heck is modsest success?
“Experts in the field” you can bet no actual experts will get to see this until its in the book stores.
To look more closely at the claims: “the first scientific study performed on a sample of individuals undergoing Christian counseling, monitoring their successes and failures from the beginning.” Which is a lie. Some time ago the authors of the study Yarhouse and Jones released information about their ‘study’ to exodus. Their numbers were quite different then…only 11% of subjects “successfully left homosexuality” and the total number of subjects was higher. When you compare the two you find that 25 individuals who “failed” at conversion (or refused to lie about changing sexual orientation for those who prefer accuracy) mysteriously disappeared from the ‘study’.
__________________ "In reality, there are no biblical literalists, only selective literalists. By abolishing slavery, adopting civil rights, having women as teachers, millions of Christians have rejected biblical literalism.”- William Toffin
Jones and Yarhouse....hmmmm...:“We are defending the historic understanding of the church, grounded in the Bible’s teaching, that homosexual behavior is immoral…We will show, persuasively we hope, that while science provides us with many interesting and useful perspectives on sexual orientation and behavior, the best science of this day fails to persuade the thoughtful Christian to change his or her moral stance. Science has nothing to offer…that would compel us to deviate from the historic Christian judgment that full homosexual intimacy, homosexual behavior, is immoral…We have aspired to have this book be a case study in good scholarship conducted ‘through the eyes of faith.’”
Homosexuality: The Use of Scientific Research in the Church's Moral Debate, by Stanton L. Jones & Mark Yarhouse
They are sooo not biased.
Last edited by naotmaa; 15th September 2007 at 11:25 AM.
If you know the truth the truth will set you free.
30
Join Date: 17th July 2006
Location: Fairview, Tennessee
Posts: 363
Blessings: 41,067
Reps: 195 (power: 0)
Originally Posted by SimplyMe
I'm amazed at the people here recently trying to claim that NARTH presents some type of liberal viewpoint. In this case, however, I also gave you a link to a similar claim about homosexuality from the Institute for the Study of Sexual Identity at Regent University -- I don't think that can be confused with a "worldly" view.
Passage 1 John 2:15-17:
Do Not Love the World
15Do not love the world nor the things in the world If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.
17The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.
The data was released Sept. 13 at a news conference in Nashville, Tenn., and will be published in the forthcoming book, "Ex-Gays?" (InterVarsity Press) by psychologists Stanton L. Jones and Mark A. Yarhouse. Thirty-eight percent of the subjects followed in the study said they had successfully left homosexuality, while an additional 29 percent said they had had only modest successes but were committed to keep trying. In another significant finding, Jones and Yarhouse said attempts at conversions do not appear to be psychologically harmful.
Yes, and of those 38%:
"15 percent reported their conversion was successful and that they had had "substantial reduction" in homosexual attraction and "substantial conversion" to heterosexual attraction. They were categorized as "success: conversion."
So, their homosexual feelings didn't completely go away. Chances are the people in this group were simply bisexual. Doesn't sound like success to me.
"-- 23 percent said their conversion was successful and that homosexual attraction was either missing or "present only incidentally or in a way that does not seem to bring about distress." They were labeled "success: chastity.""
So they either lost their sexual attraction all together or their homosexual attraction decreased slightly. They have not converted to heterosexuality. Again, does not sound like success to me.
No wonder it isn't being published in a peer-review journal.
Yay! At last! Rock hard evidence!
It's nothing we haven't heard before.
__________________ "Ach, stick it up yer trakkans!"
At last! 
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