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15th September 2007, 09:00 PM
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Reps: 33,621 (power: 54) | | Originally Posted by guzman;38848556
Bill Dembski's definition of information....I'll use this:
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif For there to be information, there must be a multiplicity of distinct possibilities any one of which might happen. When one of these possibilities does happen and the others are ruled out, information becomes actualized. Indeed, information in its most general sense can be defined as the actualization of one possibility to the exclusion of others (observe that this definition encompasses both syntactic and semantic information).[/font]
Did bill provide any units we can use to measure it?
No? Didn't think so.
Not really a valuable definition in a scientific framework (but then Bill knows that)
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15th September 2007, 09:10 PM
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Reps: 329,997,751,461 (power: 329,997,759) | | Originally Posted by guzman  funny how you need a definition of information when I agree with you that information can increase....(or at least theoretically........a defintion here is impossible because, like I said, in order to give a definitive definition of information as it applies to life, you would first need to define life....which you won't do.) Ultimately, life is not definable and neither is information as it relates to life. It's all a matter of opinion and guesswork.
Why do I need to define life? If you can't define "information" without giving a definition of "life", it's not my fault.
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15th September 2007, 09:22 PM
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Reps: 33,621 (power: 54) | | Originally Posted by guzman I would say the genome is just a physical manifestation of the mind, which is capable of acquiring new information.
Which in the end is just another unsupported assertion until you actually provide positive evidence this is the case. So far, you haven't done that. You may think you have but what you have actually demonstrated is that you haven't actually sat down and read a good book on genetics since you posted here last time.
What's the point? The center of the sun is made of red hots.
I know its revolutionary to understand this but it is true. I can't be asked to provide evidence for this assertion because it is just that revolutionary and it is only your booklearning that keeps you from seeing this.
I know, I know, all actual physical evidence and scientific research is contrary to this but trust me on this from somebody who doesn't really understand solar dynamics, it is true. The center of the sun is made of red hots.
As long as we are sharing unsupported assertions of the pseudo scientific nature, anybody else got any to add?
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15th September 2007, 09:36 PM
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Reps: 15,652,961,582 (power: 15,652,969) | | Originally Posted by guzman define life first and then I'll do that.
life is an assemblage of complex macromolecules that can reproduce and engage in metabolism.
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15th September 2007, 09:53 PM
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Reps: 7,526,451,563,718 (power: 7,526,451,573) | | | I would say that life is an enclosed set of self-sustaining chemical reaction systems capable of reproduction. Proto-life is just the enclosed self-sustaining chemical reactions. |
15th September 2007, 10:36 PM
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Reps: 45,241 (power: 50) | | Originally Posted by CACTUSJACKmankin life is an assemblage of complex macromolecules that can reproduce and engage in metabolism.
what makes them come alive? Many non-living things have complex molecules as well. And just because something that's alive can reproduce or metabolize, that does not make reproduction or metabolization a definition of being "alive."...those are simply characteristics of being alive. Now try again. What is life? |
15th September 2007, 10:39 PM
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Reps: 45,241 (power: 50) | | Originally Posted by FishFace I would say that life is an enclosed set of self-sustaining chemical reaction systems capable of reproduction. Proto-life is just the enclosed self-sustaining chemical reactions.
what makes the chemicals react?..for example when I think of an apple, what makes that apple appear in my mind? There IS a cause for the chemicals and electrical circuits to do what they do...now what is it? |
15th September 2007, 11:07 PM
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Reps: 15,461,686,232,085,960 (power: 15,461,686,232,100) | | Originally Posted by guzman funny how you need a definition of information when I agree with you that information can increase....(or at least theoretically........a defintion here is impossible because, like I said, in order to give a definitive definition of information as it applies to life, you would first need to define life....which you won't do.) Ultimately, life is not definable and neither is information as it relates to life. It's all a matter of opinion and guesswork.
Bill Dembski's definition of information....I'll use this:
For there to be information, there must be a multiplicity of distinct possibilities any one of which might happen. When one of these possibilities does happen and the others are ruled out, information becomes actualized. Indeed, information in its most general sense can be defined as the actualization of one possibility to the exclusion of others (observe that this definition encompasses both syntactic and semantic information).
Which of these has more information?
AAAGATATTTTCTTTAAG,
or
AATTATTGGGGTTCCTTAA?
If you can't tell when one sequence has more information than the other how can you possibly be qualified to tell us that information can't increase? How can you check if a kid can add if you don't even know how to count?
And I notice that you've said nothing about the Lederberg experiments that show the randomness of mutations. Therefore, I take it that you have absolutely no way to show that mutations are directed and that you have lost that point.
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15th September 2007, 11:13 PM
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Reps: 329,997,751,461 (power: 329,997,759) | | Originally Posted by guzman what makes them come alive? Many non-living things have complex molecules as well. And just because something that's alive can reproduce or metabolize, that does not make reproduction or metabolization a definition of being "alive."...those are simply characteristics of being alive. Now try again. What is life? Ah, I see what your game is. You can't give a definition for "information" so you decided to change the subject. Great debate tactic there. 
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15th September 2007, 11:50 PM
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Reps: 45,241 (power: 50) | | Originally Posted by shernren Which of these has more information?
AAAGATATTTTCTTTAAG,
or
AATTATTGGGGTTCCTTAA?
depends on if all those letters have meaning or not -- and how much each one has....which you can't answer. | | |
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