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5th October 2003, 07:12 PM
|  | hopeless romantic
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| | Join Date: 1st April 2003
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Reps: 10,751 (power: 28) | | | I think the answer is obvious, I'm not sure why nobody's mentioned it yet, so please correct me if I'm being out of line...
It concerns the cranial nerves. Eating concerns vision, smell, taste, and complicated sensorimotor function. It isn't a simple 'knee jerk' function.
Eating and breathing take place from the head because they need to be close to the brain.
(oh, and if you want an example of 'poor design' - the recurrent laryngeal nerves can be a real bother.) |
5th October 2003, 07:24 PM
| | hopeless romantic
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Reps: 10,751 (power: 28) | | Originally Posted by Jet Black having a mouth in your head, (and a crossing windpipe and foodpipe) is indicative of either an idiot designer, or a blind process which just selects for whatever happens to be the most successful at the time.
I disagree. They both need to be near the brain, and there is an epiglottis to stop you choking. You choke if you (in some way) interrupt your body's defense against it. There are lots of other examples of bad design, such as our knees,
Human knees last 50-100 years, depending on how much weight and strain is put through them. A prosthetic arthroplast lasts anything up to 15 years. Man cannot create a better one, so I would personally not call ours a 'bad design.'
Overweight people have a much higher incidence of osteoarthritis. That isn't a design flaw, it's misuse of the knee. Similarly, sports injuries... it takes a LOT of trauma to disrupt ligaments - chances are that the knee was being misused. the shape of the appendix,
Vestigial organ... helps you out in your evolution arguments  the coccyx, the extensor coccyxis,
as above... |
5th October 2003, 08:08 PM
|  | Orthogonal, Tangential, Tenuously Related
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 | | Join Date: 26th December 2002 Location: Southeast of Disorder
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Reps: 2,470 (power: 17) | | Originally Posted by emmajane I think the answer is obvious, I'm not sure why nobody's mentioned it yet, so please correct me if I'm being out of line...
It concerns the cranial nerves. Eating concerns vision, smell, taste, and complicated sensorimotor function. It isn't a simple 'knee jerk' function.
Eating and breathing take place from the head because they need to be close to the brain.
This is an interesting idea. Perhaps the functions currently handled by multiple cranial nerves were, in very old ancestral mammals, handled by significantly fewer nerves. Smell and taste are closely related, so having these organs nearby might be more efficient. |
5th October 2003, 08:12 PM
| | Orthogonal, Tangential, Tenuously Related
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| | Join Date: 26th December 2002 Location: Southeast of Disorder
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Reps: 2,470 (power: 17) | | Originally Posted by emmajane I disagree. They both need to be near the brain, and there is an epiglottis to stop you choking. You choke if you (in some way) interrupt your body's defense against it.
But they hardly need to share tissue do they? Human knees last 50-100 years, depending on how much weight and strain is put through them. A prosthetic arthroplast lasts anything up to 15 years. Man cannot create a better one, so I would personally not call ours a 'bad design.'
But it's quite obviously a modified design. Overweight people have a much higher incidence of osteoarthritis. That isn't a design flaw, it's misuse of the knee. Similarly, sports injuries... it takes a LOT of trauma to disrupt ligaments - chances are that the knee was being misused.
I don't know. Some people tear ACLs rather easily. Trust me, I'm on my third. Also, women have ACL tears at two or three times the rate as men. |
5th October 2003, 08:17 PM
|  | Electric Kool-Aid Girl
| | Join Date: 8th August 2003 Location: Dallas, Texas
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Good points but I also think gravity plays a part where the food starts out and where it exits . Funny thing about choking..I have seen it all too often, the sad ones are the kids. I know of a boy who died eating a large marsh-mallow.
__________________ None of the gods love wisdom or desire to become wise, for they are wise already -- nor if someone else is wise, do they love wisdom. Neither do the ignorant love wisdom or desire to become wise; for this is the grievous thing about ignorance, that those who are neither good nor beautiful nor sensible think they are good enough, and do not desire that which they do not think they are lacking.
Plato, Symposium 203E-204A
Last edited by LorentzHA; 5th October 2003 at 08:20 PM.
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5th October 2003, 08:26 PM
| | hopeless romantic
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Reps: 10,751 (power: 28) | | Originally Posted by LorentzHA Emmajane-
Good points but I also think gravity plays a part where the food starts out and where it exits . Funny thing about choking..I have seen it all too often, the sad ones are the kids. I know of a boy who died eating a large marsh-mallow.
Nice theory, but try standing on your head and eating an apple - it goes down by peristalsis not gravity. And the gut is over 3 metres long, it's not all down-the-way.
Tragically, I know people who have died through choking too. I've seen them die  . If you do something as simple as speak or cough whilst food is going down, you can disrupt the protective mechanism. Bad design? |
5th October 2003, 08:37 PM
| | hopeless romantic
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Reps: 10,751 (power: 28) | | Originally Posted by Philosoft But they hardly need to share tissue do they?
Yes, they do.
I don't want to lecture you on head-and-neck anatomy. But hold your nose and swallow. You'll realise that ears, nose and throat are all linked.
There are surgical interventions (eg PEG feeding into the stomach, tracheostomy) whereby the two tubes do not 'share tissue' but these are not ideal either. But it's quite obviously a modified design.
The knee prosthesis?  Well, it's designed to perform the function of your own knee... I don't know. Some people tear ACLs rather easily. Trust me, I'm on my third. Also, women have ACL tears at two or three times the rate as men.
I'm not here to talk about your ACL, but I'm fully aware that it takes a heck of a lot of strain to break your original one (and that this can be avoided with careful athletic coaching). Your new one is probably either cadaveric tendo-achilles, your own hamstring or patellar tendon. These aren't as good as the original.
The increased incidence in women has been shown to have nothing to do with the knee, but is due to the fact that womens' hips are further apart (and hence generally more dynamic) than mens.'
(why am I talking about knees? ugh!  )
Last edited by emmajane; 5th October 2003 at 08:38 PM.
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5th October 2003, 11:23 PM
| | Orthogonal, Tangential, Tenuously Related
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Reps: 2,470 (power: 17) | | Originally Posted by emmajane Yes, they do.
I don't want to lecture you on head-and-neck anatomy. But hold your nose and swallow. You'll realise that ears, nose and throat are all linked.
I'm aware of the current state-of-cranial-affairs. My point is that there is no a priori reason why the two tubes should share tissue. The knee prosthesis? Well, it's designed to perform the function of your own knee...
No, the knee itself. It's not an ideal bipedal joint. I'm not here to talk about your ACL, but I'm fully aware that it takes a heck of a lot of strain to break your original one (and that this can be avoided with careful athletic coaching).
The requisite amount of strain can be quite easily applied by landing on someone else's foot awkwardly. Trust me. Your new one is probably either cadaveric tendo-achilles, your own hamstring or patellar tendon. These aren't as good as the original.
I have a patellar tendon and a quadriceps tendon. Both, I am told, are about 90% of the strength of the original. The increased incidence in women has been shown to have nothing to do with the knee, but is due to the fact that womens' hips are further apart (and hence generally more dynamic) than mens.'
May I see a reference for this?  |
6th October 2003, 06:11 AM
| | hopeless romantic
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Reps: 10,751 (power: 28) | | Originally Posted by Philosoft The requisite amount of strain can be quite easily applied by landing on someone else's foot awkwardly. Trust me.
I have a patellar tendon and a quadriceps tendon. Both, I am told, are about 90% of the strength of the original.
May I see a reference for this?
Do a Pubmed search
(knee research isn't the topic of the thread, but do a search and you'll find evidence for the above. I was registrar to JFK for 1 year, you'll find tons of his work online) |
6th October 2003, 06:21 AM
|  | WinAce > cdesign proponentsists
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| | Join Date: 24th June 2003 Location: Chiark
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Reps: 16,712 (power: 43) | | Originally Posted by emmajane I disagree. They both need to be near the brain, and there is an epiglottis to stop you choking. You choke if you (in some way) interrupt your body's defense against it.
but they do not need to be the same pipe at all. Human knees last 50-100 years, depending on how much weight and strain is put through them. A prosthetic arthroplast lasts anything up to 15 years. Man cannot create a better one, so I would personally not call ours a 'bad design.'
It's a bad design because they would be better the other way round. or so I have read at any rate. Vestigial organ... helps you out in your evolution arguments
not only vestigial, but a nasty shape for catching bacteria.
for the coccyx, yes. the extensor coccyxis is however, completely useless. I hear we have another muscle somewhere that is only connected at one end, but I am no expert in anatomy.
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