When Filled with the Holy Ghost do you recieve all the gifts?

wldbill · #1 29th September 2003, 03:01 PM

Just want some input on this. I have heard so many different things on the dispensation of the Holy Ghost. I have heard you automatically recieve all gifts and I have heard also that gifts are given independently. So which is correct?

didaskalos · #2 29th September 2003, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by wldbill

Just want some input on this. I have heard so many different things on the dispensation of the Holy Ghost. I have heard you automatically recieve all gifts and I have heard also that gifts are given independently. So which is correct?

It all depends on your ministry...

According to 1 Cor 12, the workings of the body of Christ is assigned at three levels, or degrees:
1Co 12:
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
This effectively says that God the Father sets "operations" into motion such as moves of the Spirit, revivals, movements, etc.. Jesus sets ministries out to accomplish the work, and then the Holy Spirit enables those ministers with the gifts needed to accomplish the minisitries.

1Co 12:
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
....
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 [Are] all apostles? [are] all prophets? [are] all teachers? [are] all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

The implied answer is no.

Each ministry is empowered by certain gifts. An apostle will receive all the gifts. (Jesus was an apostle)

2Co 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

By cross referencing lists of gifts you can come up with a pretty accurate list of what gifts go with what ministry gifts:

Rom 12:
3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, [let us prophesy] according to the proportion of faith;
7 Or ministry, [let us wait] on [our] ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, [let him do it] with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

It is fairly evident that for an evangelist to accomplish his work, he would need some gifts like healings and miracles. A prophet would need things like the gift of prophecy, word of wisdom, etc. A pastor might need exhortation(a function of prophecy) and teaching. A pastor often will also be a teacher.

But only an apostle would be equiped with all the gifts.
There is a general acceptance among the charismatics and the propehetic that we are now about to see "real" apostles break upon the scene. Not just in name and title.. but men who God has called to occupy the office and manifest the same gifts that Jesus, Paul, and Peter did!

wldbill · #3 29th September 2003, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by didaskalos

It all depends on your ministry...

According to 1 Cor 12, the workings of the body of Christ is assigned at three levels, or degrees:
1Co 12:
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
This effectively says that God the Father sets "operations" into motion such as moves of the Spirit, revivals, movements, etc.. Jesus sets ministries out to accomplish the work, and then the Holy Spirit enables those ministers with the gifts needed to accomplish the minisitries.

1Co 12:
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
....
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 [Are] all apostles? [are] all prophets? [are] all teachers? [are] all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

The implied answer is no.

Each ministry is empowered by certain gifts. An apostle will receive all the gifts. (Jesus was an apostle)

2Co 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

By cross referencing lists of gifts you can come up with a pretty accurate list of what gifts go with what ministry gifts:

Rom 12:
3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, [let us prophesy] according to the proportion of faith;
7 Or ministry, [let us wait] on [our] ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, [let him do it] with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

It is fairly evident that for an evangelist to accomplish his work, he would need some gifts like healings and miracles. A prophet would need things like the gift of prophecy, word of wisdom, etc. A pastor might need exhortation(a function of prophecy) and teaching. A pastor often will also be a teacher.

But only an apostle would be equiped with all the gifts.
There is a general acceptance among the charismatics and the propehetic that we are now about to see "real" apostles break upon the scene. Not just in name and title.. but men who God has called to occupy the office and manifest the same gifts that Jesus, Paul, and Peter did!

It's not my intention to challenge but I do ask questions! I am sincere....Are there really prophets and apostles among us today as in the New Testament??

wldbill · #4 29th September 2003, 10:04 PM

By the way ,Thank you for the scriptures. I have already read these but I am being told sooo many different things

Ecclesiastes · #5 29th September 2003, 11:45 PM

Yes, wildbill, there are. Why wouldn't they be? In Ephesians 4, Jesus said, by the APostle Paul, that the gifts He gave would remain in effect until the Body of Christ was in perfect unity in the faith. (See Eph. 4:9-13) And we know we aren't there yet, so they are still in effect.

Ephesians 4:11 And He Himself gave some [to be] apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

As you see we aren't there yet. These are the Fivefold Ministerial Gifts which Christ gave to us. You can actually be more than one.

Andrew · #6 30th September 2003, 02:12 AM

I have heard you automatically recieve all gifts and I have heard also that gifts are given independently. So which is correct?

I do not believe one automatically receives all gifts at the Baptism, simple becos this goes against these scriptures:

• 1Co 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts...

Why the need to COVET and ASK God for the gifts to operate in our lives if its all "automatic"?

• 1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

So it cannot be automatic, as if one did not even have to ask God or stay faithful and expect.

But that said, a person certainly can stand in all five offices and operate in all the 9 supernatural gifts of the Spirit. Yes the potential is there simply becos the Holy Spirit who has all these gifts to dispense is IN him already.

didaskalos · #7 30th September 2003, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by wldbill

It's not my intention to challenge but I do ask questions! I am sincere....Are there really prophets and apostles among us today as in the New Testament??

Yes, wldbill, it is good to ask questions!
Consider the purpose of the apostolic ministry(as well as all the ministries). Key to this conversation is verse 13:

Eph 4: (GW)
11 He also gave apostles, prophets, missionaries, as well as pastors and teachers as gifts to his church.
12 Their purpose is to prepare God's people, to serve, and to build up the body of Christ.
13 This is to continue until all of us are united in our faith and in our knowledge about God's Son, until we become mature, until we measure up to Christ, who is the standard.
14 Then we will no longer be little children, tossed and carried about by all kinds of teachings that change like the wind. We will no longer be influenced by people who use cunning and clever strategies to lead us astray.
15 Instead, as we lovingly speak the truth, we will grow up completely in our relationship to Christ, who is the head.

These ministries are to continue until we reach unity. We need these ministries more than ever now!

Follower of Christ too · #8 30th September 2003, 10:19 AM

I feel what everyone says here to be true............ We are being taught: The church is governed by the over-seers, also that prophecy ended with the written bible, because there is no longer need for prophecy as the word has already been written..... What is confusing me is the church has the gifts in operation, the over-seers basically tell you what your calling is or rather your calling is confirmed by them...I know each church has some doctrine differences but why it really bothers me so much is because I KNOW God gave me the gift of prophecy. To me prophecy is a word from God........ Also the church teaches when you are filled with the Holy Ghost you recieve all the gifts......... Im being told the things I desire in a church is called wildfire. I know what they are referring to when they say wildfire, when people are caudgt up in a frenzy and it is not of the Holy Ghost..I have seen this. but to me if every christian is so afraid of this wildfire then they will fail to worship and praise God and miss the REAL dispensation of the Holy Ghost....I am not going to say the name of this church as I do not want to offend any of my christian family......I guess I am happy to see that I am not alone in my feeling that gifts are given as God pleases..It is also refreshing to hear that I am not alone with my belief in prophecy. It is HORRIBLE when discussing how God has blessed me and then be told " Oh, that's not prophecy" and then in the same breath be told about this wildfire

THANKS GUYS

shout2thelord · #9 30th September 2003, 11:09 AM

yeh it woouldnt work if we all had all the gifts we wouldnt need each other. God gives different gifts to different people then when we function together all the gifts are being used as they shud. im pretty sure i know what my gift is but i would really like confermation but i know i need to step out in faith as well.
im lucky though my church has taught me well on this stuff and they are very supportive.

Ecclesiastes · #10 30th September 2003, 10:15 PM

All the gifts of the Spirit are still in operation. You very well may have the gift of prophecy which is for the exhortation and edification of the church.

Question, are you involved in the 5 Fold Ministerial Gifts? (Are you in full time ministry?)

Wrapped In His Glory,

ECC