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28th September 2003, 11:36 PM
|  | WinAce > cdesign proponentsists 32 
| | Join Date: 24th June 2003 Location: Chiark
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Reps: 16,712 (power: 43) | | | Human Cities and why they must have been created Imagine a human city, and all the interconnecing parts it contains:
first of all there are millions of people, and millions of houses, flats, condos, you name it. but what is the point of millions of flats without people, and what would happen if millions of people turned up, and there were no flats there? Not only that, but all thos millions of people will need feeding, this needs supermarkets, shops, a support infrastructure... all things that would be completely wasted not to mention not functional without millions of people (how would the powerstations run without employees, how would the sewers be maintained? Then there are the services... the fire brigade, with perhaps hundreds to a thousand or so employees, a hierarchy, paid for by a tax system. none of these things could function with just a hundred or so people around, so where did it all come from? then there are the police services, Jails, hospitals, schools, all huge complex and sophisticated systems. remove a single one and the whole city will fall apart and become dideased, lawless, stupid and in flames. there are councils to run the city, buraucracies of thousands of people, carefully managing the money, auditing it, allocating it. these couldn't function with just a few hundred people, you need thousands in a big city. These are just a few of the problems with big cities, Each one of the things I have pointed out above is completely necessary for a city to function. you cannot have a big city without one of these things. you can't have half a fire service, you can't run it all without a tax system, you can't do it without schools. each one of those is a complex system too, requiring support and infrastructure, and each one consists of many irreducably complex parts.
The odds of six million people just turning up and randomly selecting exactly the right job for them are astronomical. even if all six billion people on earth did it, it would still take billions and billions of years for them all to sort themselves out, bearing in mind they must all speak the same language. and that isn't even to mention that the city needs building in the first place. and none of these people have been taught to speak yet, or to build, govern, design or whatever (remember there are no schools)
From this I suggest to you that the world's great cities, such as London New York, Tokyo and so on must have been created as they are. removal of any one of these things results in a completely non-functional society. I have also gone into a very brief overview of some of the odds required, and they are astronomically small. Cities must have been contructed by, and jobs allocated by (and so on), some kind of giant "city planner"
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28th September 2003, 11:40 PM
|  | Senior Veteran
 | | Join Date: 12th August 2003
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Reps: 907 (power: 0) | | | I remember doing a very small version of this where I took the complexity of a city's electrical grid's current position of light switches as irreducable complexity. This is a much better version of that, and I applaud you. | 
28th September 2003, 11:45 PM
|  | WinAce > cdesign proponentsists 32 
| | Join Date: 24th June 2003 Location: Chiark
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Reps: 16,712 (power: 43) | | | well I suggest you add it in as another example of how cities could not come about except via "a great city planner" to dispel the heresies of all those silly people who think that cities just appear by chance.
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29th September 2003, 04:56 AM
|  | Legend 59 
| | Join Date: 9th February 2002 Location: Ohio
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Reps: 12,682 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Jet Black From this I suggest to you that the world's great cities, such as London New York, Tokyo and so on must have been created
Of course they were created. They were created my man. Abraham was a man who looked for a citys who's founder and builder was God. We look for that same city, the New Jerusalem, that will come forth from God. | 
29th September 2003, 05:25 AM
|  | Dance Commander 26  | | Join Date: 1st September 2002
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Reps: 19 (power: 0) | | | I find it funny that you cut out where he said 'as they are', changing the meaning entirely.
Selective quoting isnt going to help your cause. | 
29th September 2003, 05:37 AM
|  | WinAce > cdesign proponentsists 32 
| | Join Date: 24th June 2003 Location: Chiark
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Reps: 16,712 (power: 43) | | Originally Posted by JohnR7 <snip>
don't misquote me please John. as Douglaangu said, you cut out "as they are" which is very important in the correct understanding of the sentence, indeed the whole OP. I was simply demonstrating that cities like London, New York and Tokyo must have always been like that... they must have been creates as they are, since the removal of any part would render them completely non-functional.
__________________ MSci MSc ARCS DIC PhD..... yes, I am bragging. | 
29th September 2003, 08:02 PM
|  | hopeless romantic 34  | | Join Date: 1st April 2003
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Reps: 10,751 (power: 28) | | | Wow, I've wondered about this before! I'm amazed to see the same thougths from someone else!
I remember studying geography at school, and learning how most towns spread circumferentially, but our town had spread longitudinally because it was in a valley....
I don't know the answer. I guess established cities developed 'as required.' I had 2 flatmates at University who studied 'Town Planning.' But this applies to new towns which are a totally different thing (and composed mainly of roundabouts in my experience!)
Bah, I don't know... ask somebody clever... | 
29th September 2003, 10:27 PM
| | Veteran
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Reps: 207 (power: 0) | | | You forgot a sewage treatment system...any ID needs a place for the poop! | 
29th September 2003, 10:55 PM
|  | Legend 59 
| | Join Date: 9th February 2002 Location: Ohio
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Reps: 12,682 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Jet Black I was simply demonstrating that cities like London, New York and Tokyo must have always been like that... they must have been creates as they are, since the removal of any part would render them completely non-functional.
They must have been what? Are you trying to confuse written history with the natural record of pre written history? | 
29th September 2003, 11:16 PM
|  | WinAce > cdesign proponentsists 32 
| | Join Date: 24th June 2003 Location: Chiark
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Reps: 16,712 (power: 43) | | Originally Posted by JohnR7 They must have been what? Are you trying to confuse written history with the natural record of pre written history?
nothing, they must have just been put there, complete with millions of people all doing their jobs. A city is an irreducably complex system, take away one bit of it and the whole thing falls apart,
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