More flawed than we are?

Michali · #1 26th September 2003, 10:38 PM

Hey, I'm back. I can't help it. I've gotta get a few things off my chest.

I would think that if evoution were unguided, and rather randomly chaotic, that there would be far more flaws in every oganism than there are today. If possitive mutations can result in limbs and instincts then surely negative mutations would be even more common (if they were not a hinderance). For instance, a slight burning sensation in the back of our legs as a mutation would not have hindered our ancestors from living and reproducing. A slight burning sensation would hardly be anything in comparison to an evolving protrusion which in the future will be another finger. It seems to me that there is far too much perfection in comparison to flaw when it comes to unguided evolution. I can think of, like, baldness maybe being an example. But stuff like high blood pressure and gallbladder problems are deadly. That should have been filtered out or atleast will be. I'm sure this has been brought up before. I would like to hear the responses though.

And a question for people like troodon: Are there plenty of fossils showing the half way point from dinosaur to bird? I always wondered if they had fossils or were they making assumptions due to skeletal resemblances. Are there fossils of half way anything? I can only think of humanoid skeletans, but I can't think of stuff like half way rodent to horse. Not to mention the flawed winged creatures there must have been along the way to flight.

Frumious Bandersnatch · #2 26th September 2003, 10:48 PM

It seems to me that there is far too much perfection in comparison to flaw when it comes to unguided evolution. I can think of, like, baldness maybe being an example.

Hey! I resemble that remark! What the heck are you talking about? Or am I perfect? God made a few good heads. On the rest He put hair.

The Frumious Bandersnatch

DrLao · #3 26th September 2003, 10:50 PM

Gallstones and high blood pressure kill people after they have stopped reproducing, so they would never be filtered out by natural selection. Plus, there were lots of other things that could get you before then. Prior to modern times just making it to an age where heart disease or cancer or any other old-age aliements was quite rare.

Actually the situation that we see with chronic, fatal diseases is precisely what evolution predicts. They affect those too old to reproduce in far greater numbers than those of reproductive or pre-reproductive ages.

Michali · #4 26th September 2003, 10:53 PM

Where are the unhindering pre-reproductive ages and reproductive stages flaws? In humans as well as animals.

DrLao · #5 26th September 2003, 10:58 PM

Blue eyes? Left handedness? Blonde hair? Being shorter than average? Being taller than average? Just look at the ways people and animals differ from one another and you'll have your answer.

Michali · #6 26th September 2003, 10:59 PM

A humanist once brought up that humanity is degrading because we allow the weak to survive. We don't care enough about their qualities, and so we just have sex with whoever. Strength and beauty are being traded for rich and classy. Even if rich and classy are not anywhere near healthy. Humanity is definitely going to get weaker as a species in their bodies.

Arikay · #7 26th September 2003, 11:01 PM

1) Thats what natural selection is for. It weeds out the bad mutations from the good mutations, thus even though negative mutations are probably more common than possitive mutations, they do not build up as much as possitive mutations, and thus we would Not be more flawed.

2) No we dont expect to see any half and half animals, if we do, we could probably say that they were Not a link in the evolutionary chain.
There were definatly flawed winged creatures on the way to flight, but their disadvantage took them out of the gene pool and the evolutionary chain.

Originally Posted by Michali

Hey, I'm back. I can't help it. I've gotta get a few things off my chest.

I would think that if evoution were unguided, and rather randomly chaotic, that there would be far more flaws in every oganism than there are today. If possitive mutations can result in limbs and instincts then surely negative mutations would be even more common (if they were not a hinderance). For instance, a slight burning sensation in the back of our legs as a mutation would not have hindered our ancestors from living and reproducing. A slight burning sensation would hardly be anything in comparison to an evolving protrusion which in the future will be another finger. It seems to me that there is far too much perfection in comparison to flaw when it comes to unguided evolution. I can think of, like, baldness maybe being an example. But stuff like high blood pressure and gallbladder problems are deadly. That should have been filtered out or atleast will be. I'm sure this has been brought up before. I would like to hear the responses though.

And a question for people like troodon: Are there plenty of fossils showing the half way point from dinosaur to bird? I always wondered if they had fossils or were they making assumptions due to skeletal resemblances. Are there fossils of half way anything? I can only think of humanoid skeletans, but I can't think of stuff like half way rodent to horse. Not to mention the flawed winged creatures there must have been along the way to flight.

Michali · #8 26th September 2003, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by DrLao

Blue eyes? Left handedness? Blonde hair? Being shorter than average? Being taller than average? Just look at the ways people and animals differ from one another and you'll have your answer.

Good examples. But these aren't really the kind of negativities I'm talking about. Like noticable pains, or unimportant instincts and appendages. The perfection of it just seems to overwhelm the flaws. Like, I can picture an animal with nipple like structures covering the back of the ears. They wouldn't be all that bad of a problem. And it would be just as likely to happen as the development of the eyeball.

Michali · #9 26th September 2003, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by Arikay

2) No we dont expect to see any half and half animals, if we do, we could probably say that they were Not a link in the evolutionary chain.
There were definatly flawed winged creatures on the way to flight, but their disadvantage took them out of the gene pool and the evolutionary chain.

I'm just asking if we have found their fossils. Why would we not expect to find these developing creatures?

armed2010 · #10 26th September 2003, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by Michali

I'm just asking if we have found their fossils. Why would we not expect to find these developing creatures?

There are no half and half animals. Evolution isnt about a half breed being born one minute, and the full new breed being born the next.