the fall of satan

Hi everyone. I am studying about the fall of Satan and am using Anselm's dialogues to help guide me through some questions that I have. I am relatively new to the study of the doctrine of sin, but now that I am reading through Grudem's Systematic theology (it's a great work!) I have finally bumped into a couple of questions that maybe some of you could help me with.

First: What exactly is the account of the fall of the devil? (either biblical or passed down through tradition of the catholic (or any) teachings.

Second: How is it possible for the devil to turn away from God and from justice, given the original goodness of the created world?

Third: Is there any known answer as to WHY the devil willed to desert justice, while the good angels did not?

Any help would be most appreciated. I'm not too sure if there are going to be too many chapter and verse answers as most of the questions are about things not expressly written in the Bible, but any insight that you think would be helpful in my studies I would be grateful for.
Thanks,
Rich

You are correct that there are no direct references to this in Scripture. What has become a popular conception is that there was a war in heaven, and Satan was cast out by the archangel Michael. This is based on Revelation 12:7-9, but the context indicates that this does not refer to Satan's original rebellion but rather has another application. Other texts which have been used are Isaiah 14:12-15 and Ezekiel 28:12-19, the former referring historically to the king of Babylon and the latter to the king of Tyre. Because of the kind of language used to describe these figures, it has been easy to see them as types or representations of the Devil. The problem is, one already needs to have a belief in the Devil and his fall in order to grasp the typology.

So while many have used the foregoing as proof texts on the subject, I have never seen these passages used in any systematic theology (which is not to say they have not been so used). Rather, the issues involving Satan seem to be treated parallel with the fall of Adam and Eve - that any creation of God must be good, but that intelligent creatures must have free will which makes sin a possibility.

It is quite possible that the Devil as such had no prehistory prior to Eden, and that the offending angel (or "Lucifer") became Satan by the very act of tempting our first parents. This would certainly fit with Jesus' description of the Devil as "a murderer from the beginning" and "a liar," as his deception resulted in death to the human family. (John 8:44)

I don't have any Scripture references to back this up, but what I have been told of this makes sense to me. Lucifer (which means "light" or something involving "light") loved God, and was loved by God. When God creates humans, Lucifer became jealous, perhaps he felt less loved. The best analogy of this that I can think of is what frequently happes with a firstborn child...When he is the only child, he receives all the parents' attention. But when a younger brother comes along, he receives less attention and feels less loved. I am not implying that God has a finite amount of love to be distributed to his creations, but I think that is what Lucifer thought or felt. So the firstborn usually clamors for attention, and in some reported cases tries to injure the second born, to remove him and restore himself as the sole recipient of the parents' love. Lucifer was banished from heaven, and from that day forth he has put all of his efforts into separating God's "secondborn" (humans) from their Divine Father. I hope this helps.

I'm also interested in this topic. I think a lot of the popular conception of Satan's fall from grace comes from non-Biblical sources or Biblical concepts filtered through fiction, like Milton's Paradise Lost:

Who first seduc'd them to that foul revolt?
Th' infernal Serpent; he it was, whose guile
Stird up with Envy and Revenge, deceiv'd
The Mother of Mankind, what time his Pride
Had cast him out from Heav'n, with all his Host
Of Rebel Angels, by whose aid aspiring
To set himself in Glory above his Peers,
He trusted to have equal'd the most High,
If he oppos'd; and with ambitious aim
Against the Throne and Monarchy of God
Rais'd impious War in Heav'n and Battel proud
With vain attempt. Him the Almighty Power
Hurld headlong flaming from th' Ethereal Skie
With hideous ruine and combustion down
To bottomless perdition, there to dwell
In Adamantine Chains and penal Fire,
Who durst defie th' Omnipotent to Arms

(That's from Paradise Lost - Book 1, line 32)

Milton's work is a literary masterpiece, no doubt, but it expands quite a bit on what scripture actually states, and it's clear that he got most of his ideas (like a lot of people) from those references in Isaiah and Ezekiel.

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Formerly 5KVGhost, now retrogeek.

The Lucifer story is one that is passed down from generation to generation, which is to say, an interpretation of Isaiah 14:12, which is a description of the king of Babylon (called "morning star" in modern translations, or "Lucifer" in the Latin Vulgate). One certainly can see shared traits between the king of Babylon and the Father of Lies, and it is possible to go so far as to say that this "morning star", this so-called "Lucifer", is a type of Satan. However, you can't form a definitive, scriptural belief that Satan, indeed was once God's favored angel (Lucifer) who instigated a war in heaven. At least, you can't jump to this belief simply from the passage in Isaiah. That, to my knowledge, is the only place where the name Lucifer is even allude to in Scripture.

I think one reason why, though the devil's nature is described in detail in Scripture, to warn and educate the saints, his origins are not clearly described, nor given prominence. Of course, this is by God's design. God respects the damage that the adversary can do, but regards his person not one bit.

Nevertheless, now I'm curious to know what the word of God will offer up on this subject. Also, I believe that fantastical fictions that explore supernatural realities can be of great use to us in visualizing spiritual truths we can otherwise not comprehend. We just need to make sure we are aware of the difference in content, purpose and perfection between the works of our Christ-guided imagination and the Word.

Having said that, here are my initial answers to CalFactor's questions:

See above and previous posts.

That may be a question for the tradition, not necessarily for scripture. Right now, I tend to side w/ Ainsley's brief explanation, that Satan may have never been originally "good" (i.e. Incapable of sin) like an angel is "good." Satan's first appearance in Scripture is in the form of a creature...one that is beautiful, but wholly corrupt.

Whether or not the devil was an angel is addressed above. However, the question is still valid. Why did the devil choose opposition to God? Maybe the better question is, why do we so often side with the devil? The devil never forces us to sin, he merely tempts. Why, outside of Christ, do we migrate toward sin? Why are our hearts corrupt and dark apart from the love and light and grace of God? Why did God allow for us to not choose Him?

Adam and Eve were created with the ability to choose whether they wanted to love and honor God. They chose to disobey God. We all have that same ability to choose God or not. God could have created us without free will, but he did not want to command our love. He wanted it to be given to him freely, because that alone is true love.

God knew that there was a big chance that Adam and Even would give in to temptation and sin; that is why he already had a redemption plan ready before he created the world (1 Peter 1:19-20).

God originally created man a little lower than the angels, so it is quite possible that Satan - a powerful cherub who was supposed to guard the Garden of Eden (Eze 28) - became jealous and enraged and wanted to discredit mankind before God (perhaps hoping that God would then install himself as overseer over earth). Well, his plan backfired, and he himself was cursed by God and expelled from the garden as well. He did become the legal god of this world after the fall, but not in the way he thought he would.

After the fall Satan roamed the earth and from time to time appeared before God to accuse people before God (take Job as an example). This continued until Jesus Christ died on the cross. After that there was a war in heaven (Rev. 12) in which Satan and a third of the angels who opposed God were cast out of heaven. Satan has been thrown and bound to earth, and the angels are chained in the abyss. Demon spirits and Satan seek to mislead and destroy as many people as possible because they know what their future fate is going to be. They are filled with vengeance and hatred against God and man.

This subject is absolutely incredible. As for your second question being answered before the first: It was possible for Lucifer to fall, as well as us and an entire universe, because Almighty God created that universe, and all it's occupants, mutable, unlike the third heavens which were and always will be, unmutable. You see, Satan didn't fall from the third heavens, although he would like us to think that he did to the end of undermining our confidence in that habitation. It is either perfect or it isn't...make up your mind about that. He, Satan, was created as a mutable agent in a mutable realm which admitted of a change in nature from good to evil, unlike the unmutable qualities and agents in the third heavens. This comes to the first question as to why he fell. Accept it as an hypothesis, which it is, but: He, Satan, was created before the man and didn't have any knowledge of man's upcoming entrance into that new realm. You see, Satan thought that He was, logically, to be the new lord of that world and fell when it was revealed that the Creator was about to make the true lord of the universe while he, Satan, was to be the head of the glorified servants of those lords!
Not only that, but this new, upcoming lord was to be made in God's image in such a way, as I do not currently understand, that he Satan was not. That is the reason for his pompous statement, "I will be like the Most High..." he wished to enjoy that unspeakable privilege which was to be bestowed upon another. This is why he fell...he wanted to throw a wrench into the gear works of the whole thing before the "Lords" had a chance to show up. Imagine his befuddled incredulity when the true "Lord" turned out to be a glorified chunk of dirt!!! However, he was badly mistaken again since God had created these angels at their pinnacle of glory while man was created on the way up. We still have to ascend to that glorious state and this is also why God snubbed them and offered salvation to us instead. It was not for sovereign reasons alone...God's gifts and callings cannot be rescinded. He wished to create these angels in a gloriously powerful state and He succeeded. He also wished to create us unto a gloriously powerful state and that has yet to happen. Some of Adam's fallen posterity must, therefore, be redeemed in order to achieving that glorious state, in order to the intention of Almighty God being fulfilled and not frustrated. The story isn't finished yet, hang unto Christ and don't let go for anything. We haven't the foggiest dream of just how glorious it will be, but it will surely be.

First off, I don't know much about the books, but I think that there is a little published "Book of Enoch" or something that deals with this. However, I don't know if it is inspired literature because it seems to appear in 0% of the Bibles in print.

Anyway, I agree to a large extent with Hogrifle. Satan was created, as far as I know, long before man, along with the rest of the Seraphim and Cherubim and whatever ranks of angels were created. But then there is this creature called man, a lowely creature who -despite his constant sinning ways is garunteed salvation through Christ. God never allowed any salvation for the corrupt angels, and I think that only further went to make Satan resent mankind.
Also, Satan isn't perfect. Only God is perfect. After all, why would God make a creature superior to himself? Therefore, Angels have the ability to ruin their lives through hatred, just like man, and probably for the same reasons, like greed.

And as I stated earlier, I think that the jealousy of humans and the neverending chances they are granted at salvation make demons and devils and Lucifer our greatest enemy in the world.

Yes, you are correct about the book of Enoch detailing the fall of Satan. For the complete text check this link: http://wesley.nnu.edu/noncanon/ot/pseudo/enoch.htmEnoch is not part of the scriptures or even the accpeted apocrypha; but is quoted several times in scriptures. It came to my attention while reading Jude.

One theory that I have not seen mentioned here is that Satan choose evil at the very instant of his creation. This theory came about because it would seem impossible to revolt against God after viewing His Majesty. I think that St. Thomas Aquinas expounded upon this at length.

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Luke 7:47 - So I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven; hence, she has shown great love. But the one to whom little is forgiven, loves little.