Cohabitation

Nadiine · #**151** 16th August 2007, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by mooduck1

Hi you've expressed the view in a previous string that you do not consider premarital sex sinful so this may be a moot point to you. However, I'd observe that if a man and a woman are living together in the same space with no other room mates then everyone on the planet would simply assume they were having sex - Even if to you, he is just your roommate. There are things in Paul's writings that suggest that to the extent that we can, we should avoid situations that people might even THINK you are being sinful so as not to be a bad witness. Does God recognize common law marriages? I suspect he does. If you are living with only one person and have your whole life then i do not think the state's opinion of your marital status counts for much. if however you were taking in a different male roommate every month then you might want to consider what kind of witness that makes. You woon't make a good witness if everyone THINKS you're a hypocrite even if you are not ACTUALLY one, because no one will take your seriously if they think you are one.

Exactly - we've brought this point up a few times before but I don't remember any reply given about it.

It's the same reason why Pastors no longer counsel females alone behind closed doors. They usually guard against being alone with a woman altogether so that no one can make false accusations or get the wrong idea.

Being a Christian carries a higher standard - if you don't believe in having a higher standard, YOU CHOSE THE WRONG RELIGION KIDS.

dayhiker · #**152** 16th August 2007, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by JWNEWMAN

It is very odd to see all these posts on a Christian Forum against marriage and in favor of shacking up.

Marriage is symbolic of our relationship with Christ. We are his bride, he gave his life for us. We are to be chaste while waiting for him, and, await his coming robed in white.

The scripture no where teaches a relaxed attitude towards the institution of marriage. It is a sacred union. That our society at large is so dis- functional in regards to the same doesn't diminish the importance, and sanctity of marriage.

We are instructed to remain single or to marry. Anything in-between is fornication. We are to live as one if marred, willing to sacrifice and die for our partner and our children.

The problem today is, we are caught up in the value system of our times. Family is supposed to be a mirror of our relationship with God, which starts with marriage. Children should be our greatest possession. But today we prize position and possessions above God, marriage, family and children.

Hi JWNEWMAN,
Thanks for your thoughtful post.
I agree with your comments about marriage being a view of our relationship with Christ. I disagree that marriage is sacred. I don't see that as the Biblical view. To me marriage is a relationship and that's what salvation is is a relationship.
I have not interest in living an institution. I want to enjoy the give and take of two people in love with each other not following some man mad tradtion of what a marriage is suppose to be. If you read the history of marriage you will find that marriage has changed quite a bit over the years. While I find mmost preachers want to say the bread winning husband/stay at home mom that was that has been the standard for the idea marriage for something like 20 years from the 50s to the 70s is what is being preached like that was what God established in Bible days!

Fornication is an interesting word. Its changed meaning quite a bit from the time Jerome used it in his translantion of the Latin Volgate. So I don't use what word as one has to know what period of time one is talking about to know what meaning to apply to the word.

Yup, marriage is suppose to be a mirror of our relationship with Christ. Its need when both relationships are working well for sure. But as for culture, I don't see any problem with culture. As I read philosophers and history it appears to be that Christians have often taken on the culture of the age they lived in. Now they changed culture as well. But many of the theologians took on the Enlightenment view of the world 200+ years ago. I see most people who post on here also use Enlightment ideas in their posts. I know I do. Even the RC church took on many Roman things. Just look at the way the RC calls the area it ministers to. Its the same word that Rome used back then.

So I look at all this. I see the church and marriage changing every day, yet people talk as if these things haven't changed. This is why the Bible is such a great book in my mind. The Law of Christ says we are to love God and people. Now there is something that can be done in every culture and in every relationship. Nice, that's why I love Jesus. His message works. All these teaching that want to put me in man made traditions don't work. Well, at least they didn't work for me. As I look around me, it appears they only work for about half the people best I can tell. America had about 80% of the population going to church 100+ years ago. Today its way down from that number. Now Jesus had people flocking to be around him. He must have a limited presence in some churches today because so many churches don't have people flocking to be there. Yet, I find where ever I go I find Jesus is there. I see God's love being manifest. Its pretty neat.

Well, I've typed enough.

blessings
dayhiker

Nadiine · #**153** 16th August 2007, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by dayhiker

Hi JWNEWMAN,
Thanks for your thoughtful post.
I agree with your comments about marriage being a view of our relationship with Christ. I disagree that marriage is sacred. I don't see that as the Biblical view. To me marriage is a relationship and that's what salvation is is a relationship.

The reason I think marriage crosses over the line into being "sacred" is the sex act itself.
God considers it to be extremely serious. You're uncovering and exposing the nakedness of another soul - bearing yourself fully to another person.
The sex act itself is sacred.

Now, marriage may not STAY perfect for people, and sex may get stale and common in marriage, but for a good period of time, it's an exposing of yourself to another person as much as a person can be exposed.

The problem as I see it is this, it's LOST it's appeal BECUZ SEX HAS BECOME COMMONPLAY for people where it no longer holds it's deep meaning, it's used for fun and gratification; namely for people who have multiple partners.

We've abused the sex act and this is the price we pay if you ask me. We reap what we sow in many ways, and I think people not caring to marry is one of those ways.

(ps: if you get your sex outside the confines of marriage, it hardly makes it a big urgency to marry.)

dies-l · #**154** 16th August 2007, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Nadiine

The reason I think marriage crosses over the line into being "sacred" is the sex act itself.
God considers it to be extremely serious. You're uncovering and exposing the nakedness of another soul - bearing yourself fully to another person.
The sex act itself is sacred.

Now, marriage may not STAY perfect for people, and sex may get stale and common in marriage, but for a good period of time, it's an exposing of yourself to another person as much as a person can be exposed.

The problem as I see it is this, it's LOST it's appeal BECUZ SEX HAS BECOME COMMONPLAY for people where it no longer holds it's deep meaning, it's used for fun and gratification; namely for people who have multiple partners.

We've abused the sex act and this is the price we pay if you ask me. We reap what we sow in many ways, and I think people not caring to marry is one of those ways.

One thing that I came to learn when I entered into a God-honoring (and spouse-honoring) marriage relationship was how absolutely beautiful human sexuality can be. As a non-believer, I was previously married and prior to my first marriage, I engaged in sexual conduct, not realizing exactly how much I was missing out on. I believe that the biggest reason that God wants us to wait until marriage is because sex combined with the deepest level of human intimacy, which really only exists in marriage, is such a beautiful thing that God does not want us to settle for less. I can only imagine how much more beautiful it would be if I had saved myself for the woman God had prepared to be my wife.

holo · #**155** 16th August 2007, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by mooduck1

You woon't make a good witness if everyone THINKS you're a hypocrite even if you are not ACTUALLY one, because no one will take your seriously if they think you are one.

If so, Jesus Himself was an extremely bad witness.

mooduck1 · #**156** 16th August 2007, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by holo

If so, Jesus Himself was an extremely bad witness.

Of course the difference being that Jesus was not just splitting theological hairs to experience "Christian freedom" with no limits, he was doing God's will and only God's will, and if they condemn you and call you a hypocrite specifically for serving others or God and not your own interests then not only should you keep on doing whatever it is creating critcism for you but we are told to be all the more proud of it.

Digit · #**157** 16th August 2007, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by TheFathersDaughter

Common sense of course. Speeding leads to my own physical destruction or the destruction of others because of carelessness and God DOES have laws against murder and self mutilation.

Speeding doesn't lead to murder or self mutilation. Those things are premeditated, accidents from speeding are not. They are accidents. The state has imposed laws to protect us, just like God gave us Laws to protect us.

Speeding is a state imposed restriction in order to give people the maximum amount of response time in order to avoid an accident. By going over the speed limit, you simply reduce that response time. By not adhering to it, you are not following state law, and are in violation of God's law that instructs us to adhere to the laws of man unless they lead to sin.

Originally Posted by TheFathersDaughter

Same with not drinking before the age of 21 - self mutilation.

How is drinking before the age of 21 self-mutilation? o_O

Originally Posted by TheFathersDaughter

Most laws you can say God did not create are made to emphasize the laws God did make.

You are right, and quite possibly the only thing you are right in so far, in that our laws often mimic God's. Why would they not? We get our morality from Him. Yet He didn't make thousands of future-proof laws, hence why He asked us to obey the laws of man (unless they lead to sin).

Originally Posted by TheFathersDaughter

You do not follow both.

Are you psychic? How can you say this? How do you know what we do and do not do with such certainty? I haven't told you that you DO follow both, or that you DON'T. I don't know, I'm just saying that as Christians we should follow both, giving priority to God's laws over man, when they conflict.

Digit

Nadiine · #**158** 16th August 2007, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by Digit

Speeding doesn't lead to murder or self mutilation. Those things are premeditated, accidents from speeding are not. They are accidents. The state has imposed laws to protect us, just like God gave us Laws to protect us.

Speeding is a state imposed restriction in order to give people the maximum amount of response time in order to avoid an accident. By going over the speed limit, you simply reduce that response time. By not adhering to it, you are not following state law, and are in violation of God's law that instructs us to adhere to the laws of man unless they lead to sin.

*Speeds by Digit in red hot Sports Car.... scarf & hair flying in the wind
*whooooooooooosh*

ps. good points.

irateional · #**159** 17th August 2007, 05:46 AM

I believe I joined the religion that is above infantile concerns about being perceived as a sinner. If people are going to get the wrong idea, then I see that as an issue with people, not with procedure.

I find this whole preoccupation with sin so weird. As Christians, are we not dead to sin, and thus should live not worrying about what's sin, doing what the holy spirit commands us to do?

Originally Posted by Nadiine

Exactly - we've brought this point up a few times before but I don't remember any reply given about it.

It's the same reason why Pastors no longer counsel females alone behind closed doors. They usually guard against being alone with a woman altogether so that no one can make false accusations or get the wrong idea.

Being a Christian carries a higher standard - if you don't believe in having a higher standard, YOU CHOSE THE WRONG RELIGION KIDS.

Digit · #**160** 17th August 2007, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by irateional

I believe I joined the religion that is above infantile concerns about being perceived as a sinner. If people are going to get the wrong idea, then I see that as an issue with people, not with procedure.

I find this whole preoccupation with sin so weird. As Christians, are we not dead to sin, and thus should live not worrying about what's sin, doing what the holy spirit commands us to do?

I don't think we can say it's infantile. We are in fact commanded to uphold an image of Christ in our actions.

You reply sort of has a confusing message in it. We should nto worry about what is sin, and yet should do what the holy spirit commands us to. Jesus said that our conscience is not the judge of what is sin and what is not, so we are to be concerned over whether something is sinful. Why does the Bible go into great lengths on this subject, if you feel we need not worry about it?

Very confusing, and a little worrying.

Cheers,
Digit