Question about the brain and the soul...

AngieBaby77 · #1 1st August 2007, 07:40 PM

Hello everyone. I am a new Christian struggling with this concept.

I read an article about a woman who sustained a traumatic brain injury and forgot years of her life -- also, her entire personality and preferences changed. She forgot her husband (they ended up divorcing because they no longer had anything in common) and even her daughter. She no longer liked the clothing she used to wear and preferred a different style. She said she wants to be who she was, but she cannot. She is like a different person now.

In the article it talked about how she struggled to retain her memories and how she had to keep being reminded of things. She will never have her full capacity back or her old "self".

My question relates to this: Her personality changed after the injury. She had brand new likes, dislikes and personality traits.

I always thought that our personal preferences and personality were from the soul. Now I am really struggling. I thought the soul makes us who we are, but if a brain injury can change our personality and preferences what does that mean for the soul? Do we not have one? I am very distressed about this concept. I hate to think we are nothing but our brains and bodies.

Can someone help me with this question?

Thanks!
Angela

GoodNewsJim · #2 1st August 2007, 07:49 PM

Personal preferences come from the heart and they change.

Memories are stored in the brain, and if you lose them then you can lose memories of love

Sorry for the hijack, but it's just natural progression here: Will we remember all the loves we had in our life on earth? Will we remember our sins?

What will we be given when we're given new bodies? I'm sure God knows best

MewtwoX · #3 1st August 2007, 08:07 PM

That's true for memories, but it sounds like the OP is looking for more of an explanation of how a personality can change from brain damage and what part of ourselves comes from the soul.

I think the fear here is that the soul might become the equivalent of an "old shoe" (in other words, have no functionality for people) to a person and such things as heaven and hell and their impacts on the soul may not even matter to people, because no part of their existence comes from the soul.

Stinker · #4 1st August 2007, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by AngieBaby77

Hello everyone. I am a new Christian struggling with this concept.

I read an article about a woman who sustained a traumatic brain injury and forgot years of her life -- also, her entire personality and preferences changed. She forgot her husband (they ended up divorcing because they no longer had anything in common) and even her daughter. She no longer liked the clothing she used to wear and preferred a different style. She said she wants to be who she was, but she cannot. She is like a different person now.

In the article it talked about how she struggled to retain her memories and how she had to keep being reminded of things. She will never have her full capacity back or her old "self".

My question relates to this: Her personality changed after the injury. She had brand new likes, dislikes and personality traits.

I always thought that our personal preferences and personality were from the soul. Now I am really struggling. I thought the soul makes us who we are, but if a brain injury can change our personality and preferences what does that mean for the soul? Do we not have one? I am very distressed about this concept. I hate to think we are nothing but our brains and bodies.

Can someone help me with this question?

Thanks!
Angela

People have been changed through brain injuries, disease, and forced brainwashing. If people who have undergone such things were believers and thought and behaved as such, but were totally opposite after which, they would not be held accountable. If they were of the disposition that they later would have become believers if they had not had such an experience, only God can be the judge.

Many Christians believe that everyone receives a blank ghost or spirit from God either when the egg became fertilized, or, when they took their first breath outside the womb. That this blank spirit or ghost is what absorbs all the data the body experiences, and this becomes the person or personality that is you.

I myself do not believe that we receive such a thing from God at conception or when the newborn takes his/her first breath.

AngieBaby77 · #5 1st August 2007, 08:40 PM

I suppose my main question is this: Is there a way to know that we are truly souls that survive physical death as opposed to what I've heard being called "computers made of meat"

I guess I'm looking for proof, whatever proof can be had outside of the Bible, of the soul.

Zechariah · #6 1st August 2007, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by AngieBaby77

Hello everyone. I am a new Christian struggling with this concept.

I read an article about a woman who sustained a traumatic brain injury and forgot years of her life -- also, her entire personality and preferences changed. She forgot her husband (they ended up divorcing because they no longer had anything in common) and even her daughter. She no longer liked the clothing she used to wear and preferred a different style. She said she wants to be who she was, but she cannot. She is like a different person now.

In the article it talked about how she struggled to retain her memories and how she had to keep being reminded of things. She will never have her full capacity back or her old "self".

My question relates to this: Her personality changed after the injury. She had brand new likes, dislikes and personality traits.

I always thought that our personal preferences and personality were from the soul. Now I am really struggling. I thought the soul makes us who we are, but if a brain injury can change our personality and preferences what does that mean for the soul? Do we not have one? I am very distressed about this concept. I hate to think we are nothing but our brains and bodies.

Can someone help me with this question?

Thanks!
Angela

Do not worry. You never need to worry about this. You are much, much, more than only a brain and body. You are a living soul. You are presently made of both a physical body, and a spirit, and this is what makes you a living soul.

When your spirit separates from your body in death, your body dies and decomposes, but you, as a spirit, continue to have consciousness, continue to exist, and you will never cease to exist, no matter what happens to your body.

Your body is like a shell that houses your spirit. Your spirit is who you truly are, and it's your spirit that makes your body alive. While your body can be damaged, and you may even loose conscious knowledge of your identity from some injuries, your spirit does not loose your memories or identity. Though your body can be damaged beyond function and repair from physical injury or disease, and even die, your spirit is eternal and cannot be injured in this way.

You will always be who you are, no matter what happens to your physical body, even if you are physically injured and loose all current conscious memory of who you are and/or who your loved ones are, etc., and even if your body does not recover from those injuries and your memories never return during your mortal life, or your personality changes and you're different than before and seem like another person, this will only be temporary.

I repeat - while your physical body may forget, or may be confused, your spirit will retain your memories and it will not loose them, nor will it ever loose your identity.

The physical body you have now is only temporary, and you, as a spirit, will leave it when you die, until the day you rise in the resurrection, when you, as a spirit, will take up your body again, and it will be completely healthy and whole and will never be able to be injured or die again.

Nothing that happens to your body between now and then, even something as serious as loss of brain function or even death, will ever change or eliminate who you really are.

Do not be distressed. Do not fear.

theQuestionist · #7 1st August 2007, 09:21 PM

The easiest answer is this:

We do not possess souls, and the dualistic view of consiousness is false.

You are correct, everything about us (from our memories, our emotions, our reaction to our 5 senses etc etc) are stored in, and controlled by our brains.

Of course, it might be slightly offensive to some people to say that "we don't have souls"....but that's simply because for thousands of years we've been taught that our "minds" exist as separate entities from our bodies....when in reality, they don't....but that doesn't mean it's still not difficult to shake the dogma.

theQuestionist · #8 1st August 2007, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by Zechariah

Do not worry. You never need to worry about this. You are much, much, more than only a brain and body. You are a living soul. You are presently made of both a physical body, and a spirit, and this is what makes you a living soul.

And you know this, how? Empirical evidence would be most appreciated.

When your spirit separates from your body in death, your body dies and decomposes, but you, as a spirit, continue to have consciousness, continue to exist, and you will never cease to exist, no matter what happens to your body.

And you know this, how? Empirical evidence would be most appreciated.

Your body is like a shell that houses your spirit. Your spirit is who you truly are, and it's your spirit that makes your body alive. While your body can be damaged, and you may even loose conscious knowledge of your identity from some injuries, your spirit does not loose your memories or identity. Though your body can be damaged beyond function and repair from physical injury or disease, and even die, your spirit is eternal and cannot be injured in this way.

And you know this, how? Empirical evidence would be most appreciated.

You will always be who you are, no matter what happens to your physical body, even if you are physically injured and loose all current conscious memory of who you are and/or who your loved ones are, etc., and even if your body does not recover from those injuries and your memories never return during your mortal life, or your personality changes and you're different than before and seem like another person, this will only be temporary.

And you know this, how? Empirical evidence would be most appreciated.

I repeat - while your physical body may forget, or may be confused, your spirit will retain your memories and it will not loose them, nor will it ever loose your identity.

The physical body you have now is only temporary, and you, as a spirit, will leave it when you die, until the day you rise in the resurrection, when you, as a spirit, will take up your body again, and it will be completely healthy and whole and will never be able to be injured or die again.

Nothing that happens to your body between now and then, even something as serious as loss of brain function or even death, will ever change or eliminate who you really are.

Do not be distressed. Do not fear.

And you know this, how? Empirical evidence would be most appreciated....etc etc, you get the picture.

So what would you say about someone born with down-sydrome? Are they a perfectlly normal "personality" trapped in a body that doesn't function properly? That makes no sense, since every part of our personality is determined by our memories, our emotions (hormones), and our reactions to our 5 senses, and our ability to interpret and understand all of those things (intellect).

You're basically adding an extra factor where there is no need for one.

Here's an example:

2+2=4
2+2+0=4

So why add the zero in the equation? It's useless and changes nothing.

In the same sense:

Body+Brain Functionality=person
Body+Brain Functionality+Soul=person (your claim)

So why add the soul into the picture when it's unecessary?

Zechariah · #9 1st August 2007, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by theQuestionist

And you know this, how? Empirical evidence would be most appreciated.

And you know this, how? Empirical evidence would be most appreciated.

And you know this, how? Empirical evidence would be most appreciated.

And you know this, how? Empirical evidence would be most appreciated.

And you know this, how? Empirical evidence would be most appreciated....etc etc, you get the picture.

So what would you say about someone born with down-sydrome? Are they a perfectlly normal "personality" trapped in a body that doesn't function properly? That makes no sense, since every part of our personality is determined by our memories, our emotions (hormones), and our reactions to our 5 senses, and our ability to interpret and understand all of those things (intellect).

You're basically adding an extra factor where there is no need for one.

Here's an example:

2+2=4
2+2+0=4

So why add the zero in the equation? It's useless and changes nothing.

In the same sense:

Body+Brain Functionality=person
Body+Brain Functionality+Soul=person (your claim)

So why add the soul into the picture when it's unecessary?

Uh... excuse me... I am trying to comfort and reassure the poster. I'm not here to prove to you that there is a spirit in man, or that man's spirit leaves his body at death, or any other thing. According to scripture, these things are so, and from personal experience, I have absolutely no doubt of their truth. But also according to scripture, without faith it is impossible to please God, and since this is not something that can be put under a microscope and seen and observed, this is something the truth of which one must learn from God.

Here we have a poster who has said she is a new Christian. Being a Christian, one must ultimately seek to know of the things of God from God, and one does not exercise faith by requiring empirical evidence for proof. "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Comfort and reassurance can help calm fears, and can also help someone recognize truth when the Spirit witnesses to them of the truth of what they've heard or read.

And your question regarding Down syndrome? While their mind and body may be damaged, where they are unable to think, reason, and function, as a perfectly normal and healthy individual, their spirit is whole and neither damaged or flawed in any way. And no, I have no empirical evidence of that either, but that doesn't change the truth of it.

Jenniewren · #10 2nd August 2007, 12:15 AM

My Mother has been diagnosed with dementia and has left the Christian Church and appears to have forgotten the beliefs she has had since childhood.
I believe that God knows where her heart and her mind were before she fell ill and I trust in him for her salvation.
I believe God knows us completely and is fully aware of what mentally damaged or [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] people are capable of understanding and has infinite mercy. Trust in him