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22nd September 2003, 02:11 PM
|  | Legend
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Reps: 33,621 (power: 56) | | Originally Posted by Voegelin Bet he never thought it could happen to him. Bet he thought that the tearing of the cross off his neck in school was just one of those things that would pass and didn't really mean much...bet his mother thought..."oh well...maybe the state is right or maybe its not worth fighting them..."
Too bad the ACLU couldn't help him. In America, the ACLU has defended students presented with similar infringements on their rights (wearing of religious jewelry as a sign of personal faith) and won.
I don't think with the ACLU around we need to worry about jewelry being ripped off, locker searches for bibles, etc. Fortunately, this country has a great legal history of decisions and precidents related to religious freedoms and personal expression in school. |
22nd September 2003, 02:38 PM
| | | | Personally, I don't have a problem with people handing out pencils with religious messages on them, or whatever, but I can see how some would oppose it. Children in early elementary are much more likely to believe anything told to them by an adult, and a child from a Jewish home, for example, might get conflicting messages between the views taught at home and a Christian message on the pencil. Ideally everyone could be open about this and just discuss it at home and toss the pencil, or whatever, but I don't blame parents who want their children protected from other religious views. If I had children who handed out pencils with atheist slogans there would be an uproar.
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22nd September 2003, 03:35 PM
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Reps: 172 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by notto Too bad the ACLU couldn't help him. In America, the ACLU has defended students presented with similar infringements on their rights (wearing of religious jewelry as a sign of personal faith) and won.
I don't think with the ACLU around we need to worry about jewelry being ripped off, locker searches for bibles, etc. Fortunately, this country has a great legal history of decisions and precidents related to religious freedoms and personal expression in school.
I personally wouldnt allow the aclu to defend me even if it meant my death. That is one of the most disgusting groups there is.
You can rip a cross from my neck or infringe on any one of my rights and I guarantee you will never see me aligned with the aclu. I will allow God to take care of what needs to be taken care of for me. |
22nd September 2003, 04:15 PM
|  | Contributor
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| | Join Date: 23rd March 2002 Location: Arizona
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Reps: 17,305 (power: 36) | | Originally Posted by Voegelin Planned Parenthood is in High Schools across the nation trolling for customers. The ADL and various gay groups sponsor teacher led "Gay-Straight" alliances. Fringe environmentalists are in schools pitching what can only be called Gaia worship (recycling is good even when it makes no economic sense! The earth likes it!).
Yet a 4 year old gives away pencils with the word Jesus on them and it ends up in Federal court.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn said at an award ceremony at Buckingham Palace in 1983:
A few decades later, Solzhenitsyn, along with millions of others, was in a concentration camp.
Bet he never thought it could happen to him. Bet he thought that the tearing of the cross off his neck in school was just one of those things that would pass and didn't really mean much...bet his mother thought..."oh well...maybe the state is right or maybe its not worth fighting them..."
Envrionmentalism is not in itself Gaia worship.
And your slippery slope is very dramatic, but it's a fallacy just the same.  |
22nd September 2003, 04:19 PM
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Reps: 17,305 (power: 36) | | Originally Posted by notto From what I can tell after a bit of reading up on this case, the schools policies do not allow the distribution of these types of "gifts" during classroom parties that promote any religious, corporate, or political viewpoints. The judges ruled (and rightly so) that a kindergarten classroom can limit speech as long as it is not done based on viewpoint, but rather the subject of the message (religious, political, corporate).
The school was following their policies, the parent was not.
I think a more appropriate title for this thread would be:
Court bans religious gifts to classmates (during class time)
or
Court bans gifts with religious, political, or corporate messages on them
It would be closer to the truth and facts of this particular case.
Actually, even that wouldn't be accurate. It should be "Court upholds school regulations banning religious, political, or corporate messages." But of course that wouldn't fuel the appacalyptic imagination quite so well would it. It's much more fun to pretend that a court has taken it upon itself to single out religion of it's own accord.
Last edited by Brimshack; 22nd September 2003 at 04:21 PM.
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22nd September 2003, 04:26 PM
| | It means 'yellow dog'
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Reps: 16,995 (power: 45) | | Originally Posted by notto The school had specific policies related to the giving of gifts during these parties that did not allow the distribution of anything that had a religious, political, or corporate endorsement attached. The school was simply following their stated policy.
Maybe the most fair policy would be to eliminate the giving of all gifts during school time. They're supposed to be studying, not partying. Maybe if the school would focus on its primary mission, education, these things wouldn't become such big problems.
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22nd September 2003, 04:30 PM
|  | Senior Member
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Reps: 133 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by lambslove Maybe the most fair policy would be to eliminate the giving of all gifts during school time. They're supposed to be studying, not partying. Maybe if the school would focus on its primary mission, education, these things wouldn't become such big problems.
Having a few school parties is beneficial for the students. The students get some social skills out of it and think of school as something of enjoyment rather than boredom all the time and may want to continue attending school. Nothing wrong with a recess every now and then as long as it doesn't cloud the real message of what a school should be. |
22nd September 2003, 05:06 PM
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Reps: 45 (power: 0) | | What is this world coming to when a message of love is fought over and debated like this? 
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22nd September 2003, 05:15 PM
| | Veteran
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| | Join Date: 18th July 2003 Location: Salt Lake City
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Reps: 172 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by SonWorshipper What is this world coming to when a message of love is fought over and debated like this?
The End Times! PRAISE GOD!  |
22nd September 2003, 05:44 PM
| | Legend
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| | Join Date: 31st May 2002
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Reps: 33,621 (power: 56) | | Originally Posted by lambslove Maybe the most fair policy would be to eliminate the giving of all gifts during school time. They're supposed to be studying, not partying. Maybe if the school would focus on its primary mission, education, these things wouldn't become such big problems.
Something else that might prevent these things from becoming such big problems would be for parents to understand the policies of the school their children go to and not to knowingly have their childrens actions violate these policies and then take the school district to court when the school district corrects the violation.
This only became a big issue when mom took the school to court.l | | |
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