**urgent** please read: re: Letter to the Hebrews

Originally Posted by MarkTwain

Jerrell, you got to pay attention, my man!

The point is, in Hebrews 6:4-6, one of the "conditions" listed was that they had "been made partakers of the Holy Spirit". Now if when Jesus was walking the earth the Holy Spirit had not yet been given, the question is: if and how this passage might have been applicable to believers at that time?

Before Jesus died no one was saved because Jesus had not yet shed his blood. As a matter of fact the only scripture then would have been the OT, so Hebrews, from which you read would not have been written till atleast 10-60 after the crucifixion, i dont know the exact date. So, no one could loose salvation when they had not recieved it in the first place, Hebrews 6:4-6 applies to after the Ressurection not before.

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"... Thy God whom thou servest continually, he will deliver thee.

[For] My God hath sent his angel, and hath shut the lions' mouths, that they have not hurt me: forasmuch as before him innocency was found in me; and also before thee, O king, have I done no hurt" Daniel 6:16,22

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Wouldn't the same principle apply though?

To the OP:

Here is why you are confused. You are not reading the verse in context. The context is this. THIS LETTER IS NOT WRITTEN TO YOU. It is written to first century Jews who were trying to be justified by old testament law. Although all scripture is God breathed, it must be understood in context. And here is that context:

1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

You see? Paul was writing to Jews to convince them that Christ was the fufillment of the law. And if they rejected him by still trying to be justified by it they would end up crucifying him again. How could Paul be talking about NEVER SINNING AGAIN when he told us in other places:

12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

And John said:

1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

You see? When we sin we are to repent and God forgives us. If we say we never sin God says we are liars. Now let's look at Chapter 10 of HEBREWS in context


10:1
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

You see? Paul is talking about Jews who were still going about trying to establish their own righteousness by the law. But Christ fulfilled the law. By ignoring that fact they were sinning by rejecting Christ. You, my gentile friend have not done that. Just confess your sins to God and he will forgive you. You are not lost, just confused. Trust me, I have been where you are and God showed me how to understand the Scriptures by reading them in their proper context. These were the people Paul was writing to, not you:

10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

King James Version of the Bible
Book of Romans
Chapter 10

"If anyone calls upon the NAME of the LORD will be saved." God is Spirit, Jesus and (God) The Father are one.
“But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” John 4:23-24
Jesus' body was refered to as the temple.
Ok, the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden of eden. bare w/me here, God told them not to eat from it, they chose their way, yet had free will before and even after being decieved. Satan appears as an angle of light, appearing intensely desirable to what seems the best for our flesh. "The Spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." "Behold, I stand at the door of your heart and knock, and if you hear my voice and open yourself unto me, you shall have eterenal life." "It's so simple to be saved, even a child or a fool can do it."
AS FAR AS HEBREWS, READ WHAT PAUL WROTE. My personal favorite after years of struggling with self righteousness and under satans attack for what seemed like everything I did wrong.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[1] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?
(Romans 7: 15-24) AND THIS WAS PAUL!
The Bible tells us there'll be those whose cloaks smell of smoke entering Heaven. They barely made it but talk about mercy. Our God is a consuming fire.

He never lost his salvation and he's openly telling everybody. Man ask God for understanding and HIS wisdom. God is a God many chances, not 3 strikes and you're out! But even God warns us not to discredit satan's strength, I only say this b/c where a desire to know Gods ways count on the enemy to use whatever he can to slow it down or stop it copleletly.

19Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21But he spake of the temple of his body.

1 corinthians 6.9 and romans 1.26 carnality....get caught with sin that they try
to sweep under the rug....like fly paper....no longer can see the light....as with drug addiction, alcohol, pornography....blinded by sin to redemption...trapped and lost...
comfortable in sin, because sin has triumphed over your flesh and consumed you

The Bible clearly states that a born again Christian can lose their salvation.
Hebrews 6:4-6, Says if one falls away it is imposible to renew their salvation.
See also Heb 10: 25--31.

You have overlooked Jude 20-22
"We have to build ourself up and keep us in the love of God".
If we do this, THEN God is able to keep us from falling.

I wonder how many more mistakes you have put in your book.

The believers in Acts 8 did receive the Holy Spirit when they were born again,[When a person is a born again believer they recieve the Spirit of God] The baptism in the Holy Ghost which came when the Apostles laid hands on them is a different experience to salvation.

Hebrews 6:4-6 seems pretty clear to me, not just in relation to the Jews under the OT law. (emphasis added)

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because[a]to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

And Hebrews 10:26-27 says (emphasis added):


26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

(1) Hard doctrines cannot be understood without understanding easy doctrines first.

(2) Thinking that leads to more sin is false.

God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.
God is pure, and God reveals Himself through true Christian love.


Example:

(a) Some people believe they are lost, and going to hell. (In many cases a correct premise. - So far so good, but now human reasoning / satanic deception steps in: )

(b) They believe it is impossible for them to be saved. (They have taken the lost state, the fallen condition that all mankind is born in, and remains in without salvation, as an eternal state.)

(c) Therefore, these people have given themselves no hope. (They conclude they are certainly lost, because they have committed death-penalty class sins, like murder, adultery, blasphemy, drug-dealing etc.)

(d) Finally, they logically conclude that they should carry on sinning. (They think they might as well get as much out of their sinning as they can, so they live a life of pleasure-seeking, selfishness, violence and evil.)

Thus, they join gangs of other criminals like mafias, bikers, etc., or become serial killers, rapists, robbers, frauds, multiplying their sin by orders of magnitude.

What went wrong? They refused to receive or never heard of a fundamental doctrine:

The doctrine is this:

As long as a man is still breathing, walking, living, even if he has committed murder (like Paul for instance), there is still a way out, and there is still hope, if he repents.

It is the doctrine of repentance, given centuries before Jesus came, in Ezekiel the Prophet. Although Ezekiel initially addressed another false doctrine, namely punishing children for the sins of their parents, in passing Ezekiel gives the word from God on repentance:

"But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he has committed,
and keep all my instructions and judgments,
and he does what is lawful and right,
he will surely live, and he will not die:

All his offences that he has committed, they shall not be spoken to him.
In his righteousness that he has returned to, he shall live.

Have I any pleasure at all, that the wicked should die?
and not rather that he should turn back from his evil ways, and live?
-SAYS THE LORD." (Ezekiel 18:21-23)

The LORD here clearly says He would prefer that a wicked man repent, than continue in sin and be destroyed. And He promises to the REPENTANT man that he will be spared, if he continues in repentance and follows God's guidance. What could be clearer? Although this will not please many who seek personal vengeance, it is the word of the LORD.

With this doctrine in hand, other doctrines, and difficult passages of Holy Scripture become clearer:

On the one hand, rejection of the Gospel is even worse than breaking the laws of the O.T. Covenant of Moses.

On the other hand, the prize, eternal life, is far greater than what was promised under the old covenant.

But concerning personal despair and hopelessness, the LORD in no uncertain terms teaches rather that repentance is ALWAYS fruitful, and there is ALWAYS hope, through REPENTANCE.

Take these words of the LORD to heart, and then read the difficult passages of Holy Scripture.

Don't be like the biker, or serial-killer, who thinks there is no hope, so he might as well continue in sin. That road is surely the road to death and destruction. Do not wait "until there is no remedy."

Take the hope that the LORD offers instead, but understand carefully the conditions God has placed on His offer of amnesty, and follow instructions. You will be saved.

peace
Nazaroo.

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"Neither do I judge thee. Sin no more." (Jn 8:11)