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11th July 2007, 10:53 PM
| | Veteran 28 
| | Join Date: 21st August 2005 Location: Dubai, UAE
Posts: 1,168
Blessings: 145,928
Reps: 175,140,093,043,491 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by BlackAndy All of which turned out to bite us in the ___. Same as the Palestinians.
Since 1993, Palestinians have received more than $1.7 billion in U.S. economic assistance via USAID projects - more than from any other donor country.
What thanks do we get? More terrorists.
When have Palestinian terrorists attacked the USA? | 
11th July 2007, 10:54 PM
| | Veteran 28 
| | Join Date: 21st August 2005 Location: Dubai, UAE
Posts: 1,168
Blessings: 145,928
Reps: 175,140,093,043,491 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Autumnleaf What did you expect? Israel needed an armed enemy for its ever changing IDF to cut its teeth on and it has that. Its no fun shooting people who only have rocks.
Hamas was funded by Israel, Israel armed and in some cases even trained Hamas to provide resistance against Fatah and the PLO which at the time had ulimited power. | 
11th July 2007, 10:54 PM
|  | Wanderer 30 
| | Join Date: 3rd June 2006 Location: Here
Posts: 2,962
Blessings: 102,807 My Mood
Reps: 45,473,978,139,756 (power: 45,473,978,148) | | | 5 deployments is a bit too much. Especially now that they are extending the tours to 15 months.
The sad thing is that we're going to be over there for a long time to come. He could be looking at a 6th or 7th, assuming he survives that long. | 
11th July 2007, 10:59 PM
| | Legend

| | Join Date: 18th June 2005
Posts: 19,646
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Reps: 180,261,762,371,949,760 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by FrenchAffair Hamas was funded by Israel, Israel armed and in some cases even trained Hamas to provide resistance against Fatah and the PLO which at the time had ulimited power.
That may well be. It seems I recall Colt M-16A2 rifles from the US being used by Palestinians to shoot at Israelis. Point being, the Palestinians seem to live in large part off of foreign aid. Their leaders tend to siphon off some of it to buy stuff used to kill Israelis. Any time Israel wanted to they could go in and decapitate the leadership of Hamas overnight. They don't though. They keep an apparent stalemate going even though its obvious which side of the board has the most pieces left on it. | 
12th July 2007, 12:29 AM
|  | Veteran

| | Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Somewhere on planet earth
Posts: 5,090
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Reps: 503,127,102,514,811,520 (power: 503,127,102,514,824) | | First of all, the new 15 month deployments are for active duty Army, not Guard and Reserve.
"From the Miami Herald ( http://www.miamiherald.com/569/story/163895.html):
Botta joined the reserves in 2000 and asked to be activated in 2001 -- ''I felt like I had to do something'' after 9/11, he said -- and his tours of duty have lasted up to eight months. He left active duty at the end of 2004."
and
"Last year, it granted Botta a 287-day delay, pushing his deployment date to this month, after an inquiry by U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla"
Now, four tours of duty up to 8 months is a maximum of 32 months. I know of several people who have been there for 2 tours of 12+ months each time.
Nor do we know what his job is.
Anyone who has signed on with Guard, Reserve or Active knows the time commitment and the possibility of deployments.
Do I feel bad that this man has to go a 5th time? Sure I do.
__________________ God Bless,
Jane
Make me to know your ways, O, Lord; teach me your paths. Lead me in your truth and teach me, for you are the God of my salvation; for you I wait all the day long. Psalm 25:4-5 (ESV)
Last edited by QuiltAngel; 12th July 2007 at 04:15 AM.
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12th July 2007, 08:04 AM
|  | Senior Contributor 47  | | Join Date: 23rd April 2004 Location: Ohio
Posts: 18,970
Blessings: 244,634 My Mood
Reps: 287,894,250,511,218,336 (power: 287,894,250,511,246) | | | I think appealing to the higher ups using legitamate
measures would be better then the worthless path of
litigation.
5 tours is alot. And if improving himself they might take it into account. But just to sue the military will do nothing but dig the heels of higher ups in. And more likely to force him to go. And could even get him a 6th tour.
__________________ If you haven't had enough, vote for Obama, I'm pretty sure we haven't hit Bar-rock bottom...yet. 6 trillion more debt, What would it have been if the Congress of "NO" was alittle more agreeable? is seeing if we can get an assault weapons ban reintroduced.(but) in my hometown of Chicago, there’s an awful lot of violence, and they’re not using AK-47s, they’re using cheap handguns.” Obama makes it known, he will work to ban assault weapons and handguns. | 
12th July 2007, 08:58 AM
|  | Dona Quixote
 | | Join Date: 11th June 2005
Posts: 19,516
Blessings: 1,004,050,990 My Mood
Reps: 550,209,461,662,961,920 (power: 550,209,461,662,988) | | | When a National Guard member is sent to Iraq for a year, he is actually deployed up to six months before to go through intensive training, both locally and at bases further away.
In terms of the disruption of their lives and the absence from their jobs and colleges, it is a lot longer than a year each time.
Maybe what we need is an organization of ombudsmen who go with recruits to the recruiting centers, listen critically to everything the recruiters have to say, help them read the fine print on their contracts, etc. These ombudsmen could come from Veterans organizations.
We wouldn't want ombudsmen who have an ax to grind, or who attempt to discourage teens from joining the military (they should be neutral, neither encouraging nor discouraging, serving as a sounding board for the teens themselves) but we would want ombudsmen to help teens know exactly what they're signing up for.
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12th July 2007, 09:42 AM
|  | WinJace 35 
| | Join Date: 12th January 2004 Location: Atlanta
Posts: 3,878
Blessings: 112,057
Reps: 34,129 (power: 47) | | Originally Posted by Billnew I think appealing to the higher ups using legitamate
measures would be better then the worthless path of
litigation.
He did that, they blew off his appeal. This is in the last option region
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12th July 2007, 09:45 AM
|  | Senior Contributor 47  | | Join Date: 23rd April 2004 Location: Ohio
Posts: 18,970
Blessings: 244,634 My Mood
Reps: 287,894,250,511,218,336 (power: 287,894,250,511,246) | | Originally Posted by Jacey He did that, they blew off his appeal. This is in the last option region
Thats the best he can do, except go to his
congressman. I think some other people have gotten
help that way.
Like I said, this way will probably get him a 6th tour.
__________________ If you haven't had enough, vote for Obama, I'm pretty sure we haven't hit Bar-rock bottom...yet. 6 trillion more debt, What would it have been if the Congress of "NO" was alittle more agreeable? is seeing if we can get an assault weapons ban reintroduced.(but) in my hometown of Chicago, there’s an awful lot of violence, and they’re not using AK-47s, they’re using cheap handguns.” Obama makes it known, he will work to ban assault weapons and handguns. | 
12th July 2007, 11:07 AM
|  | Veteran

| | Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Somewhere on planet earth
Posts: 5,090
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Reps: 503,127,102,514,811,520 (power: 503,127,102,514,824) | | | He went to his Senator already and received a 287 day extension.
I know we all are saying," hold on, 5 tours, too many." The fact of the matter is, he enlisted, voluntarily. I believe the length of time is 8 years you commit to. According to the Miami Herald article, he asked to go the first time. That tells me his Guard Unit was not going at that time.
Also, if a unit has been deployed, the predeployment training can be less than the first time. A Soldier can be deployed to fill a spot left vacant by a wounded or killed Soldier and that time would be less.
One thing we have to remember is that the Army is an ALL Volunteer Army. No one has been drafted. Once you sign those papers, you belong to the Army, you jump when they say jump, you go when they say go. As Billnew says, this is going to hurt him in the long run.
I don't think there needs to be an Ombudsman. All one has to do is go online to a few military sights and learn alot about the Army and their job. Educate yourself before talking with a recruiter. Learn more after you talk with a recruiter.
__________________ God Bless,
Jane
Make me to know your ways, O, Lord; teach me your paths. Lead me in your truth and teach me, for you are the God of my salvation; for you I wait all the day long. Psalm 25:4-5 (ESV) |  | | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode | | | |