Oh yes, very much so. But they are not proven; there's the slimmest of chances that evolutionary theory is false (for example, if two humans concieve and bear a modern chimpanzee by completely natural means, then no matter how much evidence we have accumulated, the theory must be discarded).
Yes, fact always trumps theory. But first you have to discover the falsifying fact.
Theory is never "proven". A theory is based on evidence. You can prove things in logic, not in science.
OTOH, one does get to the state that refusal to acknowledge a well-evidenced theory as "fact" is an exercise in intellectual perversity.
__________________ "Either we've got to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy - and then admit that we just don't wanna do it." Steve Colbert
Yes, fact always trumps theory. But first you have to discover the falsifying fact.
Theory is never "proven". A theory is based on evidence. You can prove things in logic, not in science.
OTOH, one does get to the state that refusal to acknowledge a well-evidenced theory as "fact" is an exercise in intellectual perversity.
Agreed. I would go so far as to agree with this sentiment: "It is absolutely safe to say that if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid or insane." - Richard Dawkins
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Agreed. I would go so far as to agree with this sentiment: "It is absolutely safe to say that if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid or insane." - Richard Dawkins
Yes, despite finding Dawkin's opinions on religion incredibly sophomoric, I have to agree with him on that point.
__________________ "Either we've got to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy - and then admit that we just don't wanna do it." Steve Colbert
As I shared with my professors years ago when I was in college, if all the evidence in the universe turns against creationism, I would be the first to admit it, but I would still be a creationist because that is what the Word of God seems to indicate. Here I must stand.
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No! You're wrong, very wrong...Evolution has never been proven and any scientist that says that it has is full of hot air. To prove a theory, it has to be able to be duplicated. Evolution has never been proven in such a manner. It can't happen.
Now you're being ridiculous. Come on, get real, that's more like science fiction
Point is that the "evidence" for a 6,000 year old earth and a 6 minute old earth is the same.
If the earth is not as old as the multiple lines of scientific evidence lead us to believe, then there is no way to say just how young it is.
It could just as well have been created last Thursday as a few millennia ago. Any guess on how recently it was created is as good as any other. None can be shown to be false.
__________________ "Either we've got to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy - and then admit that we just don't wanna do it." Steve Colbert
To prove a theory, it has to be able to be duplicated.
Not true. If this were the case, the prosecution would have to duplicate a murder to prove X is the murderer.
In any case theories are never proved. A theory is based on evidence, not proof. It is always subject to revision in the light of new evidence.
__________________ "Either we've got to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy - and then admit that we just don't wanna do it." Steve Colbert
Last edited by gluadys; 6th October 2007 at 12:21 PM.
No! You're wrong, very wrong...Evolution has never been proven and any scientist that says that it has is full of hot air. To prove a theory, it has to be able to be duplicated. Evolution has never been proven in such a manner. It can't happen.
No: a theory is never proven. It can be evidenced to the point where it's almost certainly true, but it can never be demonstrated with 100% certainty.
Proof is for mathematics and alcohol.
__________________ "I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right."
- Stargate: SG1
"A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone."
- Charles Darwin
"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof."
- Christopher Hitchens
"Protecting the sanctity of marriage against people who want to get married"
- Anonymous
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No! You're wrong, very wrong...Evolution has never been proven and any scientist that says that it has is full of hot air. To prove a theory, it has to be able to be duplicated. Evolution has never been proven in such a manner. It can't happen.
In fact, evolution has been duplicated. Evolution is a change in the traits of a population from one generation to the next. A way that biological systems can evolve is under selective pressures. This is what Darwin's original theory was about; people have done that to many species, and nature itself has done that to even more.
For the first case, look at domestic dogs. If you want a scientific experiment, look at how Dudley and Lambert selected for high and low oil content in maize and achieved spectacular results in both directions (couldn't find the article text online, but there's a graph of their results in The Ancestor's Tale by Dawkins, and here's the reference in case you want to read the original paper:
Dudley, J.W. and R.J. Lambert. 1992. Ninety generations of selection for oil and protein in maize. Maydica37:1_7.
There were similar experiments on fruit flies, I bet you can find loads of information on the internet if you care to look.
As for selection leading to change in nature, I can give you this paper. Apparently, finch beaks got smaller when there were few large seeds to eat and the big-beaked guys and girls died off...
True, this is small-scale evolution (to expect large-scale events such as a fish-tetrapod transition to occur within a human timescale is like expecting your brother to grow up in a few seconds, in my opinion), but it is evolution. So don't tell me it hasn't been "proved". It has been shown to occur, and probably as unambiguously as anything in science.
I agree with the others. Proof is for logic, evidence is for science.
(by the way, you're a bit confused on terminology. Yes, an experiment has to be replicable if you want people to take you seriously. But I don't see how you can "duplicate" a theory, unless by writing it down again and again What a theory/hypothesis* has to do is make testable predictions)
*And here's where I'm confused about terminology. Honestly, after having taken a course called Science Methods, I have not the faintest idea what a "theory" is. I like to think of them as sort of "extended", more general hypotheses, but you can argue with my definition.
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"[G]ood and evil are names for what people do, not for what they are." Philip Pullman, The Amber Spyglass
What a theory/hypothesis* has to do is make testable predictions)
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