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  #41  
Old 30th June 2007, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by peaceful soul View Post
Thanks, Rut, for quoting. It saved me from looking up other passages.

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
It is really ironic that while you demand that people read the verse in proper context, you would not hesitate to change that rule when you think it would suit your agenda.

Matt 24 like Mark 13 and Luke 21 was talking about the signs of the time when the Temple will be destroyed:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 "Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down." 3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" (Matthew 24)

The audience was the disciples and Jesus mentioned all the signs that were to come, including the preaching of the gospels in all the world for a witness unto all nations

1. As the Temple was destroyed in @70 AD, should we then say that the preaching of the gospels should have stopped by then?

2. When the Temple was destroyed, we all jolly well know that the gospels was NEVER preached at places like China, Russia and Japan, ampng others. How then will this imply taht the gosples will be preached for all nations in all the world?

3. The audience was the disciples and Jesus told the disciples to preach to "all nations" in the "world" (incl outside Judah) where they can find the lost tribes of Israel in those land.

4. The context of the 'nation' in Matthew and in the other books of the gospels is consistent with the land where you can find the Israelites. The instruction to the disciples were clear: Do not preach to the gentiles.

Paul has his own agenda and wanted to preach the gospels to the gentiles. In fact, Paul had differences with the other disciples in passing the message of Christ to the gentiles.

Why then would some of the disciples arguw with Pail over the preaching to the gentiles, if as you say, the message from Jesus is clear that they should extend it to the gentiles?
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  #42  
Old 30th June 2007, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Islam_mulia View Post
It is really ironic that while you demand that people read the verse in proper context, you would not hesitate to change that rule when you think it would suit your agenda.

Matt 24 like Mark 13 and Luke 21 was talking about the signs of the time when the Temple will be destroyed:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 "Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down." 3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" (Matthew 24)

The audience was the disciples and Jesus mentioned all the signs that were to come, including the preaching of the gospels in all the world for a witness unto all nations

1. As the Temple was destroyed in @70 AD, should we then say that the preaching of the gospels should have stopped by then?

2. When the Temple was destroyed, we all jolly well know that the gospels was NEVER preached at places like China, Russia and Japan, ampng others. How then will this imply taht the gosples will be preached for all nations in all the world?

3. The audience was the disciples and Jesus told the disciples to preach to "all nations" in the "world" (incl outside Judah) where they can find the lost tribes of Israel in those land.

4. The context of the 'nation' in Matthew and in the other books of the gospels is consistent with the land where you can find the Israelites. The instruction to the disciples were clear: Do not preach to the gentiles.

Paul has his own agenda and wanted to preach the gospels to the gentiles. In fact, Paul had differences with the other disciples in passing the message of Christ to the gentiles.

Why then would some of the disciples arguw with Pail over the preaching to the gentiles, if as you say, the message from Jesus is clear that they should extend it to the gentiles?
Please point out where the disciples argued with Paul over this. Attacking Paul really makes you look foolish.
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  #43  
Old 1st July 2007, 01:01 AM
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Paul has his own agenda and wanted to preach the gospels to the gentiles. In fact, Paul had differences with the other disciples in passing the message of Christ to the gentiles.
Originally Posted by Smileyill View Post
Please point out where the disciples argued with Paul over this. Attacking Paul really makes you look foolish.
I can also say Muhammad had his own "agenda" and so Paul had to be "pushed aside" by the Muslims.

Btw, does Muhammad and the Koran actually call Saul/Paul a false Apostle?

1 corin 7:30 And those who weep as though they did not weep, those who rejoice as though they did not rejoice, those who buy as though they did not possess, 31 and those who use this world/kosmw <2889> as not misusing [it.] For is passing away the fashion of the world/kosmou <2889> , this.
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  #44  
Old 1st July 2007, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Islam_mulia View Post
It is really ironic that while you demand that people read the verse in proper context, you would not hesitate to change that rule when you think it would suit your agenda.

Matt 24 like Mark 13 and Luke 21 was talking about the signs of the time when the Temple will be destroyed:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 "Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down." 3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" (Matthew 24)

The audience was the disciples and Jesus mentioned all the signs that were to come, including the preaching of the gospels in all the world for a witness unto all nations

1. As the Temple was destroyed in @70 AD, should we then say that the preaching of the gospels should have stopped by then?

2. When the Temple was destroyed, we all jolly well know that the gospels was NEVER preached at places like China, Russia and Japan, ampng others. How then will this imply taht the gosples will be preached for all nations in all the world?

3. The audience was the disciples and Jesus told the disciples to preach to "all nations" in the "world" (incl outside Judah) where they can find the lost tribes of Israel in those land.

4. The context of the 'nation' in Matthew and in the other books of the gospels is consistent with the land where you can find the Israelites. The instruction to the disciples were clear: Do not preach to the gentiles.

Paul has his own agenda and wanted to preach the gospels to the gentiles. In fact, Paul had differences with the other disciples in passing the message of Christ to the gentiles.

Why then would some of the disciples arguw with Pail over the preaching to the gentiles, if as you say, the message from Jesus is clear that they should extend it to the gentiles?
You really don't know much about Paul do you?

Romans 1:16

I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
Acts 18:4-6

4Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks. 5When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ.[a] 6But when the Jews opposed Paul and became abusive, he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, "Your blood be on your own heads! I am clear of my responsibility. From now on I will go to the Gentiles."
I could go on. 8 months on and still choosing to remain ignorant about everything Paul taught, did and wrote? Who's twisting what?
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  #45  
Old 1st July 2007, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Islam_mulia View Post
It is really ironic that while you demand that people read the verse in proper context, you would not hesitate to change that rule when you think it would suit your agenda.

Matt 24 like Mark 13 and Luke 21 was talking about the signs of the time when the Temple will be destroyed:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 "Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down." 3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" (Matthew 24)

The audience was the disciples and Jesus mentioned all the signs that were to come, including the preaching of the gospels in all the world for a witness unto all nations

1. As the Temple was destroyed in @70 AD, should we then say that the preaching of the gospels should have stopped by then?

2. When the Temple was destroyed, we all jolly well know that the gospels was NEVER preached at places like China, Russia and Japan, ampng others. How then will this imply taht the gosples will be preached for all nations in all the world?

3. The audience was the disciples and Jesus told the disciples to preach to "all nations" in the "world" (incl outside Judah) where they can find the lost tribes of Israel in those land.

4. The context of the 'nation' in Matthew and in the other books of the gospels is consistent with the land where you can find the Israelites. The instruction to the disciples were clear: Do not preach to the gentiles.

Paul has his own agenda and wanted to preach the gospels to the gentiles. In fact, Paul had differences with the other disciples in passing the message of Christ to the gentiles.

Why then would some of the disciples arguw with Pail over the preaching to the gentiles, if as you say, the message from Jesus is clear that they should extend it to the gentiles?
Salaam

You forget to read about the other signs what going to happen in the end of age.That should be people against people

7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Yes the temple was destoyed in 70 AD but these signs haven`t come yet that year So these signs must first come and so can the end of age come

The disiples asked 3 questions

1.when will this happen

2.what will be the sign of your coming

3.of the end of the age

So they asked a deep questions

2. If you see what the greek word is for coming it`s parousia That means
1) presence
2) the coming, arrival, advent
a) the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God

So we must wait for that so we have time to preach for all the nation as China, Russia etc
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  #46  
Old 1st July 2007, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Rut View Post
Salaam

You forget to read about the other signs what going to happen in the end of age.That should be people against people

7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Yes the temple was destoyed in 70 AD but these signs haven`t come yet that year So these signs must first come and so can the end of age come

The disiples asked 3 questions

1.when will this happen

2.what will be the sign of your coming

3.of the end of the age

So they asked a deep questions

2. If you see what the greek word is for coming it`s parousia That means
1) presence
2) the coming, arrival, advent
a) the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God

So we must wait for that so we have time to preach for all the nation as China, Russia etc
The context of the passage is clear. See Post #41 on why I said Matt 24 like Mark 13 and Luke 21 was talking about the signs of the time when the Temple will be destroyed.

Denying the above only questioned your honesty and the outright misuse of the gospel.

If we take that the signs were referring to the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 AD, the gospel that was preached to 'all nations' (Matt 24:14) can only mean that the true message of Christ were meant for the lost sheep of Israel in the land inside and outside Canaan. For the gospel has never reached China, India and Russia, among others, before 70 AD.
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  #47  
Old 1st July 2007, 01:03 PM
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Matthew 24:3 He is yet sitting on the Mountof the olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what the Sign of thy ParousiaV <3952>, and of full-End of the Age?'
If we take that the signs were referring to the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 AD, the gospel that was preached to 'all nations' (Matt 24:14) can only mean that the true message of Christ were meant for the lost sheep of Israel in the land inside and outside Canaan. For the gospel has never reached China, India and Russia, among others, before 70 AD.
I and a lot of others believe revelation is "symbolically" showing that event.

I see no one is responding to my post concerning the word "World" in the NT.

http://www.christianforums.com/t5366...testament.html

2 Peter 3:12 waiting for and hasting to the Parousian<3952> of the Day of the God, by which the heavens, being on fire, shall be dissolved, and the elements with burning heat shall melt;

1 corin 7:30 And those who weep as though they did not weep, those who rejoice as though they did not rejoice, those who buy as though they did not possess, 31 and those who use this world/kosmw <2889> as not misusing [it.] For is passing away the fashion of the world/kosmou <2889> , this.

Reve 16:14 For they are spirits of demons, doing signs which are going-forth upon of-the kings of the land, and the inhabited-house/oikoumenhV <3625> , whole, to be assembling those into a battle, the Day, the great, of the God, of the Almighty.
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  #48  
Old 1st July 2007, 01:22 PM
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I doubt some of the muslims care. Some of them are just here to argue about everything.
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Praise God!
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Old 1st July 2007, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by elijah115 View Post
I doubt some of the muslims care. Some of them are just here to argue about everything.
So do atheists concerning our Scriptures.

http://www.christianforums.com/t2762...l#post36199790

John 1:29 On the morrow seeing the John, the Jesus coming toward him, and saith--Lo! the Lamb of the God, the one taking away the Sin of the World/kosmou <2889>. [Hosea 10:8]
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Old 1st July 2007, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Islam_mulia View Post
The context of the passage is clear. See Post #41 on why I said Matt 24 like Mark 13 and Luke 21 was talking about the signs of the time when the Temple will be destroyed.

Denying the above only questioned your honesty and the outright misuse of the gospel.

If we take that the signs were referring to the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 AD, the gospel that was preached to 'all nations' (Matt 24:14) can only mean that the true message of Christ were meant for the lost sheep of Israel in the land inside and outside Canaan. For the gospel has never reached China, India and Russia, among others, before 70 AD.
I suppose you've never heard of double fulfillment and split fulfillment? It's why the Jews didn't recoginze Jesus - He didn't fulfill all the prophesis about Him, and he fulfilled some they didn't recognize.

She explained it clearly. Study scripture a bit more, my friend.
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