Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
I know you're not being serious but I will go ahead and answer.
These points must be direct, clearly defined, based on evidence(you must cite the evidence), be fasifiable, and pertaining specifically to Evolution.
I issue a challenge to you to raise five points against Evolution and five points supporting Biological creationism.
These points must be direct, clearly defined, based on evidence(you must cite the evidence), be fasifiable, and pertaining specifically to Evolution.
You really only had the start of two.
Based on current evidence, this is true.
However, there are liberal Christians out there that attempt to bring Christianity back into rational grounds, but they fail because disregarding one line of the bible is the same as being an Atheist or of another religion.
Of course I was kidding - I was making fun of fundies who make no sense at all, use circular logic etc.
Whether or not this is true (and it isn't), this really isn't the sort of thing you should say publically. You're well aware that fundamentalist Christians have a lot of political sway in America. Remember two things: first, over half of voting Americans believe in creationism. Secondly, the proposed marriage amendment is an excellent example of how fundamentalist Christian interests can even result in discussions of constitutional amendments (and I say this as someone who is against gay marriage)...
...So I'll make a simple and pragmatic suggestion: if you (mis)use evolution to tick off enough voters, we're going to wind up living in a country where creationism and other pseudoscience are written into law. Once the legislature speaks, it doesn't really matter how much evidence there is for evolution. So my suggestion is that those of you who believe evolution to be opposed to faith should keep your personal beliefs to yourself. This goes double for those of you who may be in positions of scientific authority. All it would take is enough angry faithful voters to put the angry atheists in their place.
So we shouldn't stand up for the truth and our constitutional rights because you think the majority of Americans are willing to scrap religious freedom and scientific integrity if it will allow them to "put the angry atheists in their place"? I'm don't share your pessimism and I don't take well to threats, either.
During the Civil Rights movement there were those who told black Americans not to rock the boat because the backlash would be worse than the oppression they already suffered. Those people were wrong then and I think they're wrong now.
Normally I'd love to see that, but I don't want science to go down the tube with you guys.
So you would normally stand against religious freedom and equal rights for all, if only it didn't get in the way of your professional life? I'll have to remember that for future reference.
__________________ We are men, not gods. The choice therefore is not between the wisdom of man and the wisdom of God, but between man's wisdom and man's folly. If we reject the former, we will surely fall into the latter.
However, there are liberal Christians out there that attempt to bring Christianity back into rational grounds, but they fail because disregarding one line of the bible is the same as being an Atheist or of another religion.
Off topic, but I would like to point out that "Christian" actually means "follower of the teachings of Jesus the Christ" one does not need to believe that any of the Bible is factual to do that. Though, such people are often embarrassed to call themselves "Christians" because of how much they tend to dislike the other groups of people using that name for their religion.
Fundamentalist Christians sometimes don't act very Christ-like. I don't think that Jesus once said, "Don't believe in Science." *wink*
God gave us Reason, so will we discover after a while that it wasn't God that gave it to us. i don't think so
Well you just admited to have failed at the falsifiable part of the criteria.
Let's just say our reasoning abilities are from a god. Can you prove it was your god that did it and not one of the thousands of other gods from the thousands of other religions?
God gave us Reason, so will we discover after a while that it wasn't God that gave it to us. i don't think so
You assume everybody believes in God and that God exists. He doesn't necessarily need to exist for reason to exist - Make an argument proving it was God that gave us reason without assuming his existence.(Actually don't bother, you can't)
God gave us Reason, so will we discover after a while that it wasn't God that gave it to us. i don't think so
The irony (if it can even be considered irony any more) is that if you put any thought into your assumption that your particular god exists you would have to ultimately conclude that your particular god gave you reason for the sole purpose of acting as temptation to test your faith. Gods don't value reason. Gods apparently want blind and unwavering faith that stands in direct opposition to reason.
__________________
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -- Stephen Roberts
"There once was a time when all people believed in God and the church ruled. This time was called the Dark Ages." -- Richard Lederer
Not that I'm surprised but... there aren't any creationists that can give us non-believers a valid and reasonable argument for why we should believe in the magical creation of man instead of evolution? There sure seems to be a lot of evangelical spammers around injecting plenty of posts into the forum. Why is it that then never seem to be able to the threads that require sincere thought? Hmmmmm.....
__________________
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -- Stephen Roberts
"There once was a time when all people believed in God and the church ruled. This time was called the Dark Ages." -- Richard Lederer
You're well aware that fundamentalist Christians have a lot of political sway in America.
So your lesson is that if there are lots of them, then obviously they're right, especially if they're rich and influencial. May I remind you: Hitler won his election in a landslide victory.
Remember two things: first, over half of voting Americans believe in creationism.
I didn't realise America was that regressive. If that's true (and it's probably not), I am honestly terrified. I didn't realise there were that many uneducated, wilfully ignorant imbeciles in your country.
What makes it worse is that we scientists tend to be an arrogant bunch, and the science-worshiping non-scientists who follow us around are even more pompous.
Scientists are arrogant? Where the hell do you get that from? Maybe they're arrogant to morons, I don't know.
In our noble quest to discern the great truths of the universe, many of us fail to learn the art of public relations.
Scientists don't have an agenda, so they don't pursue politically-motivated goals. Creationists do, so they tend to get their way a bit due to the old "squeaky wheel".
So I'll make a simple and pragmatic suggestion: if you (mis)use evolution to tick off enough voters, we're going to wind up living in a country where creationism and other pseudoscience are written into law.
Yay! I've always thought it was time for a new Dark Ages. Can I help with the witch burnings? I've always liked setting people on fire.
Once the legislature speaks, it doesn't really matter how much evidence there is for evolution.
As we established, a lot of idiots voting on something doesn't make it right, it just means there are lots of idiots.
So my suggestion is that those of you who believe evolution to be opposed to faith should keep your personal beliefs to yourself. This goes double for those of you who may be in positions of scientific authority. All it would take is enough angry faithful voters to put the angry atheists in their place. Normally I'd love to see that, but I don't want science to go down the tube with you guys.
So you're one of a bunch of wilfully ignorant fools? Your last shred of accountability just went down the toilet.
__________________ It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first.
Here's the reason why many creationists here don't bother bringing up evidence for creation. Because God is unfalsifiable, cannot be tested repetitively, cannot be put in a test tube, basically untouchable - therefore any theory that might include "God" is unscientific. That is because science requires falsifiability and testability. So the conclusion follows quite simply: "God" is not a scientific answer, period. So God is off the list of potential answers from the very beginning. You end up looking for a natural answer, looking for a way that explains our existence without God. So any "evidence" that is presented will always be fitted somehow in the ToE. ALWAYS. Please tell me, how many times have the cladistic charts been updated because a species has been found in a different sediment layer than thought of previously (Or the existence of the fossil in the wrong layer been explained by a possible event, like volcano, local flood, etc). If they found a species that was supposed to have evolved 2 mya in a sediment from 4 mya, the charts will be updated and reconciled somehow - but such evidence will NEVER prove ToE wrong. That's because there is no other NATURALISTIC theory that makes any sense. But the problem is that man is looking for an answer without God to begin with. Even if God did it and it was pretty clear, we'd still be looking for that natural answer, just so we wouldn't have a God to deal with. From there it's pretty clear that creation does not stand a chance against human will and desire.
Just my 2 cents.
BTW. what "evidence" can there be, aside from God recreating the whole universe in front of us, that would prove ToE wrong?
__________________ For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise they became fools and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man
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