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Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.

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  #1  
Old 26th May 2007, 01:34 PM
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Two conflicting stories

At least two Creation stories appear in the Bible, and they disagree. The first is in Genesis 1:1 to 2:3, the second in the remainder of Chapter 2.
In the first version, God (Elohim in the manuscripts) created men & women on the same day (1:27). subsequent to the creation of all animals (1:25). In the second version, God (Jehovah) created Adam first (2:7). then animals & birds (2:19). then Eve (2:22). In the first version. trees appeared before man (1:11): in the second. the world was barren of vegetation at the time of man's creation (2:5). and plantlife was created later (2:8-9).
Compare these with Genesis 5:1-2, a third creation story, which strongly suggests the simultaneous creation of man & woman. It states that at the time of the creation of men and women. God blessed them and called them "man" (in the Hebrew text, adam).
Most translators and Bible scholars candidly admit the differences in the Creation stories. and call the first two the Priestly and the Yahwehist versions. (In particular, see the New American Bible and its fine commentary.) The versions differ strongly in texture and language as #ell as content. ln some translations, however, verb tenses are subtly altered to conceal the problems.
(This item is clearest in the New International Bible and the Revised KJ Bible.)
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  #2  
Old 26th May 2007, 01:53 PM
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Doesn't appear you have a question so I'm assuming you're just pointing this out. I've been aware of this for some time, as I assume have most people.

I always find it interesting to see the gymnastics performed to explain this so I'll keep an eye on this thread. I wont expect much though, it'll probably either be ignored or met with half-hearted hand waving. Maybe I'll get lucky and AV will stop by...
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Old 26th May 2007, 02:03 PM
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The most common explanation for this is that the first (or the second) isn't really literal, that it's a grammatical header, or a non-literal summary for/of the preceding/following text.
This is, of course, pure ad hoc bull. So ignore such answers, and feel secure in having spotted one of the most glaring flaws of Biblical literalism.
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Old 26th May 2007, 02:14 PM
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It seems pretty obvious to me that the first account is an account of general creation, whereas the second account pertains to the creation of Eden. In fact, before I was even aware of any controversy regarding the first two chapters of Genesis, this is how I read it. If there are any mental gymnastics here, they seem to be performed by those who simply want the Bible to contradict itself.
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Old 26th May 2007, 02:31 PM
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That was said 2000 years ago. So what happened? Or am I performing gymnastics?
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Old 26th May 2007, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by arunma View Post
It seems pretty obvious to me that the first account is an account of general creation, whereas the second account pertains to the creation of Eden. In fact, before I was even aware of any controversy regarding the first two chapters of Genesis, this is how I read it. If there are any mental gymnastics here, they seem to be performed by those who simply want the Bible to contradict itself.
Exacly, I can't believe skeptics still claim this, have they even read genesis 1 and 2 themselves?
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Old 26th May 2007, 02:41 PM
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Genesis 2

1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
5And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
10And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
15And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
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Old 26th May 2007, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by nommo View Post
That was said 2000 years ago. So what happened? Or am I performing gymnastics?
Interesting that you ask that. This reminds me of the response given by James the Lord's brother, which was recorded in Eusebius' ecclesiastical history (book 2, ch. 23, if you're interested). He said, "Why do you ask me concerning Jesus, the Son of Man? He himself sits in heaven at the right hand of the great Power, and is about to come upon the clouds of heaven." Your response is also characterized by the words of the Apostle Peter, who said this:
This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation." For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2 Peter 3:1-8)
Furthermore, as I alluded earlier, I sense a certain desperation in your claims of Biblical contradiction. But a failure to understand Scripture hardly constitutes a demonstration of a contradiction.
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Old 27th May 2007, 07:54 AM
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It seems pretty obvious to me that the first account is an account of general creation, whereas the second account pertains to the creation of Eden. In fact, before I was even aware of any controversy regarding the first two chapters of Genesis, this is how I read it
So you don't have to admit that there are contradictions. Please do read the text again.
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Old 27th May 2007, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by RichardT View Post
Exacly, I can't believe skeptics still claim this, have they even read genesis 1 and 2 themselves?
Most translators and Bible scholars candidly admit the differences in the Creation stories.
But you of course won't.
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