Home | Be a Christian | Devotionals | Join Us! | Forums | Rules | F.A.Q.


Go Back   Christian Forums > Discussion and Debate > Physical & Life Sciences > Creation & Evolution
Register BlogsPrayersJobsArcade Calendar Mark Forums Read

Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 30th August 2003, 10:41 AM
Jet Black's Avatar
WinAce > cdesign proponentsists

34 Gender: Female Faith: Atheist Country: England Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 24th June 2003
Location: Chiark
Posts: 18,427
Blessings: 169,918
Reps: 16,712 (power: 45)
Jet Black is a splendid one to behold
Jet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to behold
Originally Posted by obediah001
These are tree trunks no roots they were deposited in their positions by the flood they did not nor could they grow thru those layers. Refrence Mt. St Helens Washingtom state (USA) volcano which erupted in believe 1981 it, in Spirit lake has thousands of logs blown down off the mountains now standing up in the layers of muck in the bottom of the lake. This is science the Evolutionary strata depository thoeries have been conclusively been demonstrated i.e. PROVEN to be wrong.
Given that an "in place" occurrence was convincingly determined by observations made in the 19th century for this and many other "fossil forest" localities, it is surprising that these conclusions have not been recognized by modern "young Earth global flood" [YEGF] creationists as clear evidence of non-global-flood deposition for much of the geologic record. They often hinge their current arguments on the occurrence of upright trees in Yellowstone National Park, point to their volcanic setting, and then point to floating upright trees floating in Spirit Lake near Mt. St. Helens [2], and say, "See? They could be transported during the flood.". This argument is completely fallacious, because most "fossil forests" do not occur in volcanic deposits, and do have the fragile roots of the stumps tightly penetrating into the surrounding sediment, often into a paleosol (fossil soil) [besides Joggins, see also 3]. One occurrence is even associated with dinosaur footprints on the same surface, on top of a coal seam [4, 5, 6]. The "transported floating upright stumps" model [2] is a complete red-herring that does not apply to the vast majority of "fossil forest" occurrences.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/poly...ate_trees.html
__________________
MSci MSc ARCS DIC PhD..... yes, I am bragging.
Reply With Quote
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!

  #32  
Old 30th August 2003, 10:44 AM
JohnR7's Avatar
Legend

62 Gender: Male Married Faith: Pentecostal Country: United States Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 9th February 2002
Location: Ohio
Posts: 25,401
Blessings: 252,816
Reps: 12,682 (power: 0)
JohnR7 is a splendid one to beholdJohnR7 is a splendid one to beholdJohnR7 is a splendid one to beholdJohnR7 is a splendid one to behold
JohnR7 is a splendid one to beholdJohnR7 is a splendid one to beholdJohnR7 is a splendid one to beholdJohnR7 is a splendid one to beholdJohnR7 is a splendid one to beholdJohnR7 is a splendid one to behold
Originally Posted by obediah001
Yes, & it is this evidence the Evolutionist CHOOSES to ignore in defrence to their unproven- unproveable I should also say theories, which are only cloaks for their disdain for the Creator God.
The point I was trying to make was that evolutionists will go to a site like Dr. Dino and search it with a fine tooth comb for some tiny little point that they think is easy to falsify. But then when you bring up one of the major points he is trying to establish, they run for cover.

Matthew 23:24
Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

For every point that they think is so easy to falsify, we can bring up two points that is not so easy for them to falsify.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 30th August 2003, 10:55 AM
Jet Black's Avatar
WinAce > cdesign proponentsists

34 Gender: Female Faith: Atheist Country: England Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 24th June 2003
Location: Chiark
Posts: 18,427
Blessings: 169,918
Reps: 16,712 (power: 45)
Jet Black is a splendid one to behold
Jet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to behold
Originally Posted by JohnR7
The point I was trying to make was that evolutionists will go to a site like Dr. Dino and search it with a fine tooth comb for some tiny little point that they think is easy to falsify. But then when you bring up one of the major points he is trying to establish, they run for cover.
what major point? Look, if the guy is going round lying and spreading blatant mistruth, how can you trust anything he says?
__________________
MSci MSc ARCS DIC PhD..... yes, I am bragging.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 30th August 2003, 11:09 AM
Pete Harcoff's Avatar
PeteAce - In memory of WinAce

36 Gender: Male Faith: Other-Religion Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 30th June 2002
Posts: 8,425
Blessings: 2,138,994
Reps: 9,311,669,886,675,212 (power: 9,311,669,886,695)
Pete Harcoff has disabled reputation
Originally Posted by JohnR7
It does not matter, the point of the thread is that one of the most common things I hear on here is how easy it is to falsify Dr. Dino. So here is everyone's chance to falsify one of the articals on his site.
John, his argument is philosophical in nature, therefore un-falsifiable. I mean look at some of the stuff he writes:
Both Old Earth and even Young Earth Scientists even as Christians often give us E=MC2 Theory of Relativity. But in this theory along with the Big Bang Theory where is the invisible spoken of in the above Scriptures? The answer is NOWHERE. I donít know what percentage if any is attributable to the physical laws vs. the invisible laws. It might be 40%, it might be 99.9% invisible. It might be even be 100% invisible and the natural laws are only pale distorted images like Paul describes ("we see through a glass dimly").
How could you possibly begin to falsify "invisible" laws? There is no way to (scientifically) test for such things.
__________________
Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution

Last edited by Pete Harcoff; 30th August 2003 at 11:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 30th August 2003, 11:12 AM
Jet Black's Avatar
WinAce > cdesign proponentsists

34 Gender: Female Faith: Atheist Country: England Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 24th June 2003
Location: Chiark
Posts: 18,427
Blessings: 169,918
Reps: 16,712 (power: 45)
Jet Black is a splendid one to behold
Jet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to behold
Originally Posted by JohnR7
For every point that they think is so easy to falsify, we can bring up two points that is not so easy for them to falsify.
no, you resort to the cartoon version of evolution, and then we spend ages telling you why you are wrong.
__________________
MSci MSc ARCS DIC PhD..... yes, I am bragging.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 30th August 2003, 11:16 AM
Pete Harcoff's Avatar
PeteAce - In memory of WinAce

36 Gender: Male Faith: Other-Religion Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 30th June 2002
Posts: 8,425
Blessings: 2,138,994
Reps: 9,311,669,886,675,212 (power: 9,311,669,886,695)
Pete Harcoff has disabled reputation
Originally Posted by obediah001
There is not even the remorest of remote chance's that the Evolutionists can PROVethe earth is any age let alone 4.5 billions of years old.
Sure they can. The cumulative physical evidence in the Earth and solar system point to its formation some 4.5 billion years ago.

Unless, of course, you want to argue that the universe is a deception (i.e. created to "look" billions of years old), but science can only tell you what the Earth and universe looks like. And the Eath looks 4.5 billion years old.

For heavens sake they themselves have changed their own estimates & theories somany times it is an absolute absurdity to put any credibility in their abilities to do anything but imagine another tall tale of one sort or another.
That is the strength of science, not a weakness. Unlike religious dogma, science changes its theories and ideas to fit the data it finds, not the other way around. Young-Earth creationism was falsified 200 years ago. You are clinging to false doctrine.
__________________
Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 30th August 2003, 11:31 AM
Pete Harcoff's Avatar
PeteAce - In memory of WinAce

36 Gender: Male Faith: Other-Religion Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 30th June 2002
Posts: 8,425
Blessings: 2,138,994
Reps: 9,311,669,886,675,212 (power: 9,311,669,886,695)
Pete Harcoff has disabled reputation
Originally Posted by JohnR7
That is what they claim, that geology layers are formed or break down at a very slow rate. But I have seen to much evidence to show otherwise.
Obviously some geological formations formed rapidly, but to assume this means ALL geological formations formed rapidly is erroneous.

Trace fossils in different layers, for example, are very good evidence that those strata were not laid down rapidly during the flood.

http://www.psiaz.com/Schur/azpaleo/tracefos.html
__________________
Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 30th August 2003, 11:56 AM
Plan 9's Avatar
Absolutely Elsewhere

61 Gender: Female Faith: Methodist Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 7th July 2002
Location: Deck Six, Cargo Bay Two; apply to Annabel Lee to learn my precise coordinates.
Posts: 9,165
Blessings: 101,812
Reps: 41,540 (power: 62)
Plan 9 is a splendid one to beholdPlan 9 is a splendid one to beholdPlan 9 is a splendid one to beholdPlan 9 is a splendid one to beholdPlan 9 is a splendid one to behold
Plan 9 is a splendid one to beholdPlan 9 is a splendid one to beholdPlan 9 is a splendid one to beholdPlan 9 is a splendid one to beholdPlan 9 is a splendid one to beholdPlan 9 is a splendid one to beholdPlan 9 is a splendid one to beholdPlan 9 is a splendid one to beholdPlan 9 is a splendid one to beholdPlan 9 is a splendid one to beholdPlan 9 is a splendid one to beholdPlan 9 is a splendid one to beholdPlan 9 is a splendid one to beholdPlan 9 is a splendid one to behold
Originally Posted by JohnR7
The point I was trying to make was that evolutionists will go to a site like Dr. Dino and search it with a fine tooth comb for some tiny little point that they think is easy to falsify. But then when you bring up one of the major points he is trying to establish, they run for cover.

For every point that they think is so easy to falsify, we can bring up two points that is not so easy for them to falsify.

Your comment could equally well be applied to Dr. Dino, et al.

I don't see Jet Black running for cover; he's right here. What major point do you feel he's missed?
__________________


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing."~Elbert Hubbard
_______________________

"Between impulse and action there is a realm of good taste begging for your acquaintance."~Voyager's Holographic Doctor
_______________________


"I do not understand their humor, either."~Lt. Commander Worf
_______________________


Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam, K'Ehleyr!
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 30th August 2003, 12:08 PM
Pete Harcoff's Avatar
PeteAce - In memory of WinAce

36 Gender: Male Faith: Other-Religion Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 30th June 2002
Posts: 8,425
Blessings: 2,138,994
Reps: 9,311,669,886,675,212 (power: 9,311,669,886,695)
Pete Harcoff has disabled reputation
Originally Posted by obediah001
Did U hear that dwebate last nite? Hovind just blew them right out of thewater!
Admitedly, Hovind "won" that debate, but it was primarly due to his opponent's inexperience and allowing Hovind to get away with using strawman caricatures of things like evolution to support his position (the minute Hovind began with his 6 definitions of evolution and White was obviously not familar with them, I knew White would get into trouble...).

The crux of Hovind's argument, however, rests of the case that inductive reasoning via historical evidence is invalid. But adopting Hovind's position, I could very well argue that anything historical becomes religious in nature, especially if one proceeds to invent ad-hoc explanations to explain all the available evidence. And I could further apply that line of reasoning to current events as well (i.e. all the evidence for France is part of a vast conspiracy--and Hovind loves conspiracies-- and since I haven't been to France myself, therefore my acceptance of France is religious, and therefore it should be stricken from the textbooks).
__________________
Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 30th August 2003, 12:11 PM
Jet Black's Avatar
WinAce > cdesign proponentsists

34 Gender: Female Faith: Atheist Country: England Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 24th June 2003
Location: Chiark
Posts: 18,427
Blessings: 169,918
Reps: 16,712 (power: 45)
Jet Black is a splendid one to behold
Jet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to beholdJet Black is a splendid one to behold
yeap, that is the thing with hovind, he is a master at dodging the point and obfuscation. What he really needs is a widely versed opponent with good debating skills (something scientists don't always have) to sit there and set fire to his strawmen and get him to stop talking about his pokemon version of evolution.
__________________
MSci MSc ARCS DIC PhD..... yes, I am bragging.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Return to Creation & Evolution

Thread Tools
Display Modes


 
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:15 AM.