Origins TheologyForum for the discussion of Creation Science (Young/Old) vs Theistic Evolution. Discussion of Atheistic Evolution should be taken to the Discussion and Debate forums.
As far as we know the geneology is correct all the way up to Adam. The only difference is that Adam actually had parents. Big whoop
Just because people with these names were actually part of the geneologies doesn't mean their stories actually happened. Noah wasn't really involved in a global flood and Enoch wasn't really turned into some super-cool angel (as per the Book of Enoch)
Hi There!
You seem to think that there are no archaeological supports at all for the Bible. How untrue!
Every year, the archaeological digs are recovering information that supports the Bible. Were you aware that two more papyri were found just last fall at Ein Gedi in the desert? They haven't been officially reported yet, but they appear to be real estate papers from the first century. The point is this... they aren't finding anything in archaeology to disprove the Bible.
You seem to think that there are no archaeological supports at all for the Bible. How untrue!
Every year, the archaeological digs are recovering information that supports the Bible. Were you aware that two more papyri were found just last fall at Ein Gedi in the desert? They haven't been officially reported yet, but they appear to be real estate papers from the first century. The point is this... they aren't finding anything in archaeology to disprove the Bible.
Perhaps you are just reading in the wrong places?
~malaka~
Umm... Malaka... He never said that there was no archaeological support for some events in the Bible.
There most certainly is evidence for some of the things in the Bible and a huge lack of support for others.
But just a few posts ago you ranted and raved about someone putting words in your mouth that you did not say, even to the point of suggesting banning that person. Yet here you are doing the same thing.
Umm... Malaka... He never said that there was no archaeological support for some events in the Bible.
There most certainly is evidence for some of the things in the Bible and a huge lack of support for others.
But just a few posts ago you ranted and raved about someone putting words in your mouth that you did not say, even to the point of suggesting banning that person. Yet here you are doing the same thing.
If I have misquoted someone.... or if I have made the statement of what someone else meant to say ... when in fact they didn't say it...
Then report me.
He wasn't putting words in "my" mouth, but adding words to a published work... interpreting what the author meant to say...
As I said, if I am misquoting someone or adjusting quotes.... report me.
For the mockers and scoffers, I just read two articles today (published for September 2003) that relate that when the first five books of the Bible were written... that certainly, people were alive who had come through the Exodus with Moses. I found that interesting!!!!
You don't need Moses's email address, he left footprints in the sand, and they were real big ones... Oh, yeah, the article was aligned the archaeological supports for the timeline with Moses and Egypt....
And you don't need Jesus Christ's email address... He isn't long distance and there are no roaming charges...
~malaka~
And what would you say if I told you that I felt that God had spoken to me on the subject of Biblical literacy and that His view on it was not that it should be read as a history book and should not be placed above Him?
At one time I was a literalist and a YEC, I almost did lose my faith when I studied up on YEC claims and found out I had been lied to by the movement. But through the help of friends and massive ammounts of prayer I feel I have been lead to a much deeper understanding then I once had about God and the Bible.
I no longer feel the need to justify my faith by trying to prove the Bible as literal, and I no longer endanger it by putting up arguments that "If xyz is true then God is a lie." I no longer have to worry if an author two to three thousand years ago got every detail right, or may have embelished a story alittle.
It is a freedom that I cherish and would be hard put to lay down.
And what would you say if I told you that I felt that God had spoken to me on the subject of Biblical literacy and that His view on it was not that it should be read as a history book and should not be placed above Him?
At one time I was a literalist and a YEC, I almost did lose my faith when I studied up on YEC claims and found out I had been lied to by the movement. But through the help of friends and massive ammounts of prayer I feel I have been lead to a much deeper understanding then I once had about God and the Bible.
I no longer feel the need to justify my faith by trying to prove the Bible as literal, and I no longer endanger it by putting up arguments that "If xyz is true then God is a lie." I no longer have to worry if an author two to three thousand years ago got every detail right, or may have embelished a story alittle.
It is a freedom that I cherish and would be hard put to lay down.
Originally Posted by LewisWildermuth
Sure, that would be great, do you happen to have Moses’ email address? How about Jesus? Any of the speakers or authors of the Bible?
No?
Then I guess our interpretations are the best we have, and since it is only an interpretation made by us, mere mortals, then it is just as fallible as we are.
.
Particularly,
"I no longer feel the need to justify my faith..."
If you were so confident in your beliefs... then why bash others????
This converstation is over, Mr. Wildermuth... for nothing exalting to God is coming out of it.
"Creationists are going to distort whatever arguments come up.... Archaeopteryx is half reptile and half bird any way you cut the deck, and so it is a Rosetta stone for evolution, whether it is related to dinosaurs or not. These creationists are confusing an argument about minor details of evolution with the indisputable fact of evolution."
-Dr. Alan Feduccia, in an interview with Discover magazine
Troodon, according to you the bible can't be trusted.
Every word of the Bible can be trusted in regards to spirituality and theology. What does it matter if the Hebrews fudged a little on the historical details? Does that have anything to do with Christianity?
Do you think Jesus Christ really rose from the dead?
Yes, our Lord and savior Jesus Christ rose from the dead. Want me to make an avatar with a cross or have an obviously Chistian handle to "prove" it?
Originally Posted by wblastyn
Notice how when you question their interpretation of scripture they begin to question your Christianinty.
Yup, it's sort of funny how they've equated a literal interpretation of the Bible as the only way to be a Christian (whether they admit it or not). Because they cannot imagine being a Christian without YEC backing them up, they cannot imagine us being Christians without the same thing holding up our faith.
Originally Posted by Malaka
I just read two articles today (published for September 2003) that relate that when the first five books of the Bible were written... that certainly, people were alive who had come through the Exodus with Moses. I found that interesting!!!!
You don't need Moses's email address, he left footprints in the sand, and they were real big ones... Oh, yeah, the article was aligned the archaeological supports for the timeline with Moses and Egypt.........
You seem to think that there are no archaeological supports at all for the Bible. How untrue!
As LewisWildermuth said before you decided to stop listening (or reading for that matter) to him; I never said I doubted the Exodus. I have no problem with the Exodus. I think the Exodus actually happened. However, as much evidence for the Exodus that you may have to bear (or is it bare?), you have no archaeological evidence for Adam, Seth, Enoch, Noah, or even Abraham. I have no problem accepting their existance as a matter of faith, I just don't think that Adam was the first human, that Enoch transformed into Metatron, and the Noah floated on a big boat for a year waiting for the water from global flood to recede into nothingness....
He wasn't putting words in "my" mouth, but adding words to a published work... interpreting what the author meant to say...
Malaka, if I read "The Prince and the Pauper" but afterwards doubt the idea that a peasant and the heir to the throne of France did in actuality trade places, am I putting words into Mark Twain's mouth?
If you were so confident in your beliefs... then why bash others????
Heh, you're the one that called theistic evolutionists "mockers and scoffers" and yet he's bashing you for describing [u]his[/b] ordeal with YEC?
Originally Posted by troodon
Wow, I just lost a huge post. One sec
Silly person
__________________
"Creationists are going to distort whatever arguments come up.... Archaeopteryx is half reptile and half bird any way you cut the deck, and so it is a Rosetta stone for evolution, whether it is related to dinosaurs or not. These creationists are confusing an argument about minor details of evolution with the indisputable fact of evolution."
-Dr. Alan Feduccia, in an interview with Discover magazine
Every word of the Bible can be trusted in regards to spirituality and theology. What does it matter if the Hebrews fudged a little on the historical details? Does that have anything to do with Christianity?
Fudged? Why would the inspired by God bible need to be fudged?
Did they fudge on the gospels? After all if they fudged once..then why not many times?
Fudged? Why would the inspired by God bible need to be fudged?
Did they fudge on the gospels? After all if they fudged once..then why not many times?
How do you seperate the fudge from the bread?
Writers at the time often exaggerated events or whatever (the contraidcition between how many horses a king had for instance, I forget the numbers) to make their country seem more important than it actually is.
__________________ "Ach, stick it up yer trakkans!"
As LewisWildermuth said before you decided to stop listening (or reading for that matter) to him; I never said I doubted the Exodus. I have no problem with the Exodus. I think the Exodus actually happened.
My friend, you don't have to "think" the Exodus actually happened, you may know it. There is evidence for the Israelites in Goshen (that's Egypt), then any evidence of the Hebrew children ceases, and suddenly "poof"... there they are in the land God gave them
There's only one way to leave a country without a trace... and that is to E-X-O-D-U-S.
Originally Posted by troodon
However, as much evidence for the Exodus that you may have to bear (or is it bare?), you have no archaeological evidence for Adam, Seth, Enoch, Noah, or even Abraham.
How untrue. ( I think these will soon be my trademark words....)
Archaeological evidence does not mean that you may have the actual bones of this or that person, but that you have the environment in which they lived and worked. There is evidence for all of the cities of the Old Testament, references to some of the people.... Abraham lived.... and the name Abraham is found in records (the mari tablets) that are concurrent to Abraham's time, as well as other names that are found in Abraham's family. Is it the exact same Abraham? I don't know that it is... but I don't know that it isn't either. The point is... don't discredit Abraham's existence without merit.Furthermore, if you believe the existence of Christ and His words, He spoke of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, Adam and Noah
Mt 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Mt 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Originally Posted by troodon
Malaka, if I read "The Prince and the Pauper" but afterwards doubt the idea that a peasant and the heir to the throne of France did in actuality trade places, am I putting words into Mark Twain's mouth?
No... but are you publishing on the internet within the text of the copyrighted material what the author intended to say??????
There is a difference in "opinion" and "shoveling"... vance was shoveling.
~malaka~
Last edited by Malaka; 31st August 2003 at 04:21 PM.
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