Couple ???'s 4 Y'all!

SonWorshipper · #1 21st August 2003, 01:18 AM

Shalom Y'all!

I have a few questions that I am hoping you can answer for me. First it came to my attention that many of the Orthodox members have as their titles, "Orthodoxy, the Ancient way" and I was wondering if this is a slogan amongst members or what that actually means. Ancient in comparison to .....?

Secondly I was wondering if someone could tell me about a Greek Orthodox church in Jerusalem somewhere near the "Upper Room", how long it's been there, etc, anything you know.

Toda! ( thanks! ) in advance!

Philip · #2 21st August 2003, 01:26 AM

[quote=SonWorshipper] Shalom Y'all!

Peace.

I have a few questions that I am hoping you can answer for me. First it came to my attention that many of the Orthodox members have as their titles, "Orthodoxy, the Ancient way" and I was wondering if this is a slogan amongst members or what that actually means. Ancient in comparison to .....?

It is a statement that has become a favorite among some of the Orthodox posters here. It emphasizes that we believe that Orthodoxy preserves the fullness of the Christian faith as handed down by the Apostles. It is ancient in comparison to any alterations made to that faith by man.

Secondly I was wondering if someone could tell me about a Greek Orthodox church in Jerusalem somewhere near the "Upper Room", how long it's been there, etc, anything you know.

Do you mean the Coenaculum? I don't know much about it, but that website might help.

SonWorshipper · #3 21st August 2003, 02:24 AM

Thanks Brother!

AFA the Coenaculum, yes that is what it is near, but not what I was talking about, but a Greek Monestary that I believe is somewhere near King David's Ancient Tomb. Do you, or anyone else, know anything of this?

Also could you explain more about the Ancient way? You said

that we believe that Orthodoxy preserves the fullness of the Christian faith as handed down by the Apostles.

Does this mean that you do the things that the Jewish Apostles did? I do remember reading somewhere that you celebrate Passover? What about the other 6 of the L-rds Holy days? From which church do you trace yourself back to? Location wise?

It is ancient in comparison to any alterations made to that faith by man.

Faith in Yeshua, as his apostles did and believed in? So it started in 30 AD?

thanks for answering, this is interesting.

Also while I have you here I saw on the title of the forum that there are Russian, and Greek and Antiochian, Coptic/ Ethiopian Sects. Would you explain the difference please. I am especially interested in the history of the Ethiopian sect and where it came from, when it was initiatied, etc.

Thanks!

Philip · #4 21st August 2003, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by SonWorshipper

AFA the Coenaculum, yes that is what it is near, but not what I was talking about, but a Greek Monestary that I believe is somewhere near King David's Ancient Tomb. Do you, or anyone else, know anything of this?

Sorry, I don't know any more.

Does this mean that you do the things that the Jewish Apostles did?

We believe as they did. Obviously, there are some cultural differences, but the faith is the same.

I do remember reading somewhere that you celebrate Passover?

We celebrate Pascha, when Christ became our Passover Lamb.

From which church do you trace yourself back to? Location wise?

All of them. We continue the succession of bishops begun by the Apostles in Jerusalem and Antioch, begun in Alexandria by St Mark. From Smyrna and Ephesus. From Corinth and Galatia. Cyprus and Crete. We include Rome up until around AD 1000.

Faith in Yeshua, as his apostles did and believed in? So it started in 30 AD?

AD 33. We believe that our faith is a completion of the faith of Israel.

Also while I have you here I saw on the title of the forum that there are Russian, and Greek and Antiochian, Coptic/ Ethiopian Sects

There are two different things here. The Russian, and Greek and Antiochian Churches are Eastern Orthodox. This also includes the Churches of Romania, Cyprus, Serbia, OCA, and others. They are united in faith and doctrine. They differ only in cultural practices.

The Coptic and Ethiopian Churches are Oriental Orthodox. The EO are separated from the OO by (IMO) a misunderstanding and a failure to effectively communicate concerning the nature of Christ. It is my prayer that this will soon be resolved. I can give you more details if you like.

I am especially interested in the history of the Ethiopian sect and where it came from, when it was initiatied, etc

It began with the conversion of the Eunuch by St Philip. For most of the last 2000 years, it has been administered by the Coptic Church centered in Alexandria.

MariaRegina · #5 21st August 2003, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by SonWorshipper

I am especially interested in the history of the Ethiopian sect and where it came from, when it was initiatied, etc.

Thanks!

Dear SonWorshipper:

I talked with an Ethiopian Orthodox exchange student from Ethiopia. He said that they really have the Ark of the Covenant. There is a video presentation sold by Readers' Digest which you can purchase. It is absolutely fantastic.

Anyway, this Ethiopian Orthodox student was very devout. They use a replica of the Ark in all their churches and have processions with it during the year. He said that there are many stories of the impious who were burned to a crisp if they dared to come into the presence of the real ark, which is kept at a special monastery. Only one monk at a time is put in charge of watching and praying before the Ark of the Covenant. He must be a very holy monk who guards the Ark.

Hope this helps.
Elizabeth

CopticOrthodox · #6 21st August 2003, 12:00 PM

I'm not sure how it works in other Churches, but on our altars there's a wodden box that the chalace is placed in during the Liturgy. In the Ethiopian Church, this box is made to resemble the Ark of the Covenant from the OT. The reason for this is that, as Chanter said, the Ethiopians (probably) have the Ark of the Covenant in their posession, and so they show a great deal of veneration towards this very important relic.

Here are some sites with the history of the Ethiopian Church, you can find lots more from google: http://www.eotc.faithweb.com/orth.html http://www.angelfire.com/ny3/ethiochurch/

Traditionally a bishop has been sent from Alexandria to govern the Ethiopian Church, ie the Ethiopian Church has been part of the Coptic (Egyptian) Church. Recently, the Ethiopians asked to become independent, and so our Patriarch consecrated a Patriarch for their Church. We are still one Church, sharing Communion and one faith, but both are now independent, like most Orthodox Churches.

SonWorshipper · #7 21st August 2003, 05:14 PM

WOW! I never knew all this. Thanks all for explaining. I have a few questions but will check out those sites you mentioned.

One question off the top of my head though, and I thought that this was how, the Ethiopian eunuch, you say was converted by Philip. Now in saying that do you believe that he was just a heathen, or ?

See I believe that this man was from the family of the Queen of Sheba who had a son by King of Israel, Solomon and who some believe had a replica of the Ark made for Her to take back to her homeland with her son when she left. Her son, therefore is Jewish, born from the father of the tribe of Judah. The Eunich I believe was Jewish, and as you can see by the scripture, it tells us that he was riding along and studying the Scroll of Isaiah. This I am sure was something that he brought with him on his journey, more than likely in obeyance to the commandment to appear before the L-rd on the three feasts that call for this.

SonWorshipper · #8 21st August 2003, 05:19 PM

Chanter, thanks for that info!

I will look into that. I remember seeing a documentary on History channel or TLC about this but they weren't allowed in to film anything, and the man that was the lifetime guard only came out for a short time. This is very interesting but I don't believe it is the origianl ark made in the Wilderness, and used in the Tabernacle.

Philip · #9 21st August 2003, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by SonWorshipper

The Eunich I believe was Jewish, and as you can see by the scripture, it tells us that he was riding along and studying the Scroll of Isaiah. This I am sure was something that he brought with him on his journey, more than likely in obeyance to the commandment to appear before the L-rd on the three feasts that call for this.

Agreed.

Oblio · #10 22nd August 2003, 01:22 PM

THE SIGN AND THE SEAL

The link is sloooooooooooow, it will load.